Restart

[Bheaten Castard]

21 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

I suggest you look at the furlough rules. Furlough is to stop you being made redundant by your Employer. You can work for another Employer during the time you are on furlough. Look at the amount of people that too up working in supermarkets or delivery drivers during the first lockdown.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/coronavirus-being-furloughed-if-you-cant-work/

They will still be contracted to there club and will be classed as working for them even though they are playing elsewhere unless the club agrees to let them go.

[Lobby Dossar]

23 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

I suggest you look at the furlough rules. Furlough is to stop you being made redundant by your Employer. You can work for another Employer during the time you are on furlough. Look at the amount of people that too up working in supermarkets or delivery drivers during the first lockdown.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/coronavirus-being-furloughed-if-you-cant-work/

Agreed but only if there paying the tax and insurance on that payment and not receiving it in a brown envelope or via expenses 

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, theesel1994 said:

I suggest you look at the furlough rules. Furlough is to stop you being made redundant by your Employer. You can work for another Employer during the time you are on furlough. Look at the amount of people that too up working in supermarkets or delivery drivers during the first lockdown.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/coronavirus-being-furloughed-if-you-cant-work/

Players on loan are effectively contractors.  The parent club is providing the services of one of their employees.  

[theesel1994]

27 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Players on loan are effectively contractors.  The parent club is providing the services of one of their employees.  

Are they generating an income for the parent club? That's the determining factor. If you take a Director of a company........he could be furloughed by that company but still do some type of work while on furlough (like paint the windows of a shop) as long as it didn't generate an income for the company. I've had eight months of looking through CJRS rules. Even yesterday I was having to look through them again as people returned to furlough and found that despite the Living Wage increase in April they were still getting paid based on the old furlough rate.

[parsforlife]

Just now, theesel1994 said:

Are they generating an income for the parent club? That's the determining factor. If you take a Director of a company........he could be furloughed by that company but still do some type of work while on furlough (like paint the windows of a shop) as long as it didn't generate an income for the company. I've had eight months of looking through CJRS rules. Even yesterday I was having to look through them again as people returned to furlough and found that despite the Living Wage increase in April they were still getting paid based on the old furlough rate.

Well presumably the club loaning in the player will be paying the parent club,  so yes.

[theesel1994]

11 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Well presumably the club loaning in the player will be paying the parent club,  so yes.

And you know this is happening and it isn't simply a case of the club he loaned out to now taking over the paying of wages to the player?

[happy]

Like I said.It is all about doing what is best for all parties, particularly under the current circumstances.If there is any jiggerypokery well hell mend them.

[parsforlife]

4 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

And you know this is happening and it isn't simply a case of the club he loaned out to now taking over the paying of wages to the player?

Because that’s how loans work.  Skyline drifter has explained that before.    Clubs don’t take on a players wages in a loan. They pay the parent club.

[Arthurlie1981]

Because that’s how loans work.  Skyline drifter has explained that before.    Clubs don’t take on a players wages in a loan. They pay the parent club.

It can be done either way. I have been involved in loaning players to clubs and bringing players in on loan (both from and to SPFL clubs) and some have wanted payment to the parent club and others have wanted the club to take over the payments of the players. We always did it so that the club just paid the player as it removes issues around VAT.

[Stag Nation]

4 hours ago, Bheaten Castard said:

These player will be receiving furlough payments and if the club allows them to go on loan furlough will stop.The club will have to start paying them as per contract unless they agree to terminate it.Any club taking them on loan will have to pay there wages in full 

Will they? Is that an SFA rule?

If not, it's surely a matter for negotiation.

[Arthurlie1981]

Will they? Is that an SFA rule?
If not, it's surely a matter for negotiation.

It is a negotiation you don’t have to pay wages in full and as I said above you don’t need to pay the wages at all just an agreed fee.

[Arthurlie1981]

Meant to add to my reply to Parsforlife that it is mainly due to how players are paid. If clubs are paying through bank transfer then they normally as for payment (or if you are paying above what the wages are).

[parsforlife]

3 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Meant to add to my reply to Parsforlife that it is mainly due to how players are paid. If clubs are paying through bank transfer then they normally as for payment (or if you are paying above what the wages are).

Can’t be that common for many to be payed through anything that’s not bank transfer surely?  Especially now.

[Arthurlie1981]

Can’t be that common for many to be payed through anything that’s not bank transfer surely?  Especially now.

Well I am guessing there might be changes due to the pandemic (I doubt many players outside of the SPFL are getting paid) but up until last season I would guess a majority of club at this level still paid cash. I would doubt many have the facilities to invoice and process payments. But my point is that it is possible to do it either way.

[Stag Nation]

19 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

Well I am guessing there might be changes due to the pandemic (I doubt many players outside of the SPFL are getting paid) but up until last season I would guess a majority of club at this level still paid cash. I would doubt many have the facilities to invoice and process payments. But my point is that it is possible to do it either way.

Unless the cash is in brown envelopes or stuffed in boots, the club needs to process PAYE and NI. Once that is in place, arranging bank transfers is a piece of cake. And much easier than cash.

[theesel1994]

27 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Unless the cash is in brown envelopes or stuffed in boots, the club needs to process PAYE and NI. Once that is in place, arranging bank transfers is a piece of cake. And much easier than cash.

I think only the top clubs will have anyone having any NI deductions made (assuming brown envelopes are avoided). Tax is only an issue because for most players it is a second job.
As for bank transfers - isn't that how the refs and assistants get paid now?

[Bheaten Castard]

1 hour ago, Stag Nation said:

Will they? Is that an SFA rule?

If not, it's surely a matter for negotiation.

The government is effectively paying the players wages and not the club if he is furloughed and if the club take him off furlough they will then have to pay them.Don't think any club that has furloughed there players will be willing to pay a players wage or part of it to play for someone else when they have no match day income You never know though..Even if  some team is willing to pay the players full wage (or more ) they would only be having him for a certain period 

[theesel1994]

You can say "effectively" all you want - but legally it isn't the case. The Employer pays the player to avoid making him redundant (the clue is in the name - Job Retention Scheme). The Employer in turn receives a grant to fund this. The Employer is TAXED on this funding.

[Arthurlie1981]

Unless the cash is in brown envelopes or stuffed in boots, the club needs to process PAYE and NI. Once that is in place, arranging bank transfers is a piece of cake. And much easier than cash.

I don’t know why you are bringing brown envelopes into this discussion but to get back to the point there are many players who prefer being paid in cash for a number of personal reasons. There are clubs who prefer it too and we shouldn’t get hung up on it.

I only brought up payments in relation to payments for loan players.

[Bheaten Castard]

28 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

You can say "effectively" all you want - but legally it isn't the case. The Employer pays the player to avoid making him redundant (the clue is in the name - Job Retention Scheme). The Employer in turn receives a grant to fund this. The Employer is TAXED on this funding.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-furlough-scheme-job-protection

The club pays the player 80% of his average wage including bonuses .It is then claimed back from the  the government .The player will be taxed at the appropriate rate on the payment not the club.