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[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

...Implicit in that report is that removing these barriers would simply result in a return towards the horrendous situation we saw April to June in Europe and elsewhere.  The only way to keep it contained, is to continue with barriers....

There are examples of countries with less stringent barriers than Nicola Sturgeon is implementing that have nothing like the horrendous situation of April to June at the moment. Sweden's curve on daily deaths looks remarkably similar to the UK's despite very different policies.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There are examples of countries with less stringent barriers than Nicola Sturgeon is implementing that have nothing like the horrendous situation of April to June at the moment. Sweden's curve on daily deaths looks remarkably similar to the UK's despite very different policies.

If you are going to reference Sweden, then it is reasonable to compare it to its neighbours: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/

The Swedish experience is horrific in comparison to  surrounding countries.

The idea that Sweden didn't close down is also completely wrong.  It is being used widely to support a libertarian view that civil liberties are under attack.  There may be comparisons to be made there, but Sweden is not your friend.

[LongTimeLurker]

20 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

If you are going to reference Sweden, then it is reasonable to compare it to its neighbours: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/

The Swedish experience is horrific in comparison to  surrounding countries...

...but not to the UK, Belgium and France etc possibly because they had similar issues with care homes. People select what comparison to make with Sweden to fit their preferred narrative. I hesitate to bring Belarus into this but the overall vodka and sauna approach complete with professional fitba continuing with crowds and more recently mass public demonstrations of 100,000 + should have led to a public health catastrophe of near biblical proportions if what was being predicted in computer models at the start of the year had been in any way accurate. As far as I can tell it didn't and when you get scenarios like that unfolding you need to start re-examining your basic assumptions.

[Talbot supporter]

If Hamilton and st mirren players are catching the virus what's the chances that could easily happen at our level

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Talbot supporter said:

If Hamilton and st mirren players are catching the virus what's the chances that could easily happen at our level

Basically a given.

People were talking about the FA Cup at the weekend. While the focus was on the good things, there wasn't much mention of the walkovers starting to add up due to positive tests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020–21_FA_Cup_qualifying_rounds

[LongTimeLurker]

13 minutes ago, Talbot supporter said:

If Hamilton and st mirren players are catching the virus what's the chances that could easily happen at our level

...almost inevitable there will be the occasional new case. The question is more whether we could reasonably expect zero new cases at this point so close to the big wave April-June and whether it's best to just start getting on with life to a large extent while still taking some reasonable precautions given COVID is uncharted territory compared to the flu.

Edited September 15, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[rncaa]

Have to laugh at the kilwinning chairman blowhard preaching to the first minister about clubs going to the wall. 

This is from a man who did what he wanted and split a town in half and caused untold animosity.

No its not up to the first minister to save nonleague clubs its down to whoever the administrators are to make tough decisions quickly to protect clubs , what people don't need is not a lot of unrealistic hot air from you. 

The first minister has far bigger problems to be dealing with ffs.

Edited September 15, 2020 by rncaa

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

28 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...almost inevitable there will be the occasional new case. The question is more whether we could reasonably expect zero new cases at this point so close to the big wave April-June and whether it's best to just start getting on with life to a large extent while still taking some reasonable precautions given COVID is uncharted territory compared to the flu.

And being more like the USA perhaps?  Those relaxations are not working well.

There's a discussion to be had about football, a discussion to be had about wider society and what people would like to do, and there's the impact of allowances in one area impacting compliance in another.

Again, social distancing measures are working - it does not logically follow that it is therefore safe to remove or reduce them.  The countries that have done well in this pandemic, are those whose cultures are aligned with stricter government control, reduced liberties, and better compliance with intervention.  Those countries with lesser adherence have done, well, less well.

I am sympathetic to the principle of loosening slowly, but then, that's effectively what we are already doing.  Getting this wrong, as the weather turns and flu season starts will be catastrophic.  We (the West) got this wrong once.  We can't afford to get it wrong twice.

[Andy groundhopper]

21 hours ago, TFW said:

A few thoughts from my first game in six months....

I went to see Penrith vs Wst Allotment Celtic in the FA Cup preliminary round om Saturday. As is usual I was there early and went to their clubhouse to put a few pound behind the bar despite there being a good real ale pub about half a mile away. Was surprised on entering to see the television on with the sound full blast, competing with the tannoy outside playing music pre match. Have to assume that's the English way of doing things in such circumstances at the moment (perhaps Andy groundhopper could confirm please?)

You had to sign in to enter the ground, and plenty of hand sanitiser available. No food available, but you could buy cups of coffee. The logic defeats me, because if it's about trying to stop contagion, you'll catch Covid from a coffee cup just like you would a pie? Nobody formally stewarding any social distancing inside the ground, and I reckon about 80% of the 167 crowd were respecting the guidelines, but there some noticeable groups of blokes huddled closely together who obviously weren't interested, full stop.

A good number of Scottish fans there, and I was sat next to a couple of Hibees before moving due some arse conitinuing to ignore social distancing guidelines around me. Had to do this three more times. I really worry if that is the lax attitude with a small crowd, what will it be like when we get back to watching our game in the WoSL, with some of the expected larger gates?

Anyway, a sucker for punishment, going to see Carlisle City play tomorrow night at the old Celtic Nation FC ground in Carlisle, and probably there as well on Saturday when they have semi decent opposition vs Nelson.

Going by the guidelines the TV isn't meant to be loud, players are asked not to shout or spit during the game, the catering needs to be sold behind a screen but as you say, is that clean or healthy ? I try not to criticise but like groups of fans stood together, almost like normality isn't great. Think some clubs and pubs will turn a blind eye until they get caught, whilst other clubs struggle due to lack of stewards etc. Guessing the sensible folk just need to be careful among the idiots.The recent FA grassroots guidelines are interesting with a few questions.

[Dev]

7 hours ago, Derry said:

Not the decent players at the better clubs mate they will be gone straight away 

Where are they going to go to?

The clubs which may be able to afford the better players already have full squads of better players.

[Dev]

4 hours ago, Derry said:

U are so naive lol will u travel to work which this is for most of them as they rely on that money same as u or me would so would u travel and cost of your own 3 times a week all over to work for free ?? 

 

the full argument is irrelevant as if this virus doesn’t decrease then most of these lads probably won’t play again so hopefully there is a opportunity for lads to play whether paid or not which looks unlikely this season 

"U are so naive lol will u travel to work which this is for most of them as they rely on that money same as u or me would so would u travel and cost of your own 3 times a week all over to work for free ?? "

Lots of players are gagging to play regardless of the risk from injury or disease. They are young and confident that the disease is something they can deal with if they get it. They'll travel to play at the highest level they can achieve. They'll travel for a night out or for a match.

I'm not so sure they are wise but they are desperate to get matches going again.

[Dev]

4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's actually highly questionable whether there was any effective mitigation in a Scottish context. Check out what Taiwan or South Korea did for what would have needed to be done to stop the outbreak in its tracks. Get in early with large scale testing and track and trace with the first cases and have stringent lockdown measures well before the pandemic was even noticeable for most people. Nothing like that was happening in most European countries, because of the massive backlash there would have been from a civil liberties angle. Instead of that, the exponential curve on deaths and ICU admissions was already starting to rocket up when the UK finally took some action by imposing a lockdown and that's way too late in the day to make much difference, if you understand how an exponential curve works.

It is also important to acknowledge that the UK and almost all other nations weren't in a position to immediately bring in testing as they just didn't have the resources/facilities. Many do have these now and that is a very significant positive factor compared with the start of the epidemic.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Dev
.

[Dev]

4 hours ago, Derry said:

No but plenty of them will be paying there mortgage at least off this money
 

let me make it simple u sign a player u say here this is ur wage I expect u to travel here for training and games etc we will pay u this amount then u ask same player to do the same but with no money at all and all the travel to games and training come out here own pocket the most won’t do it we will have to agree to disagree on this I’m not saying they won’t play football but they will just pick a club near home with there mates or so 

"No but plenty of them will be paying there mortgage at least off this money "

Really!

[cmontheloknow]

45 minutes ago, Dev said:

"No but plenty of them will be paying there mortgage at least off this money "

Really!

If I earned a hundred quid a week it would pay my mortgage! My house is shit, mind.

[Derry]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

"U are so naive lol will u travel to work which this is for most of them as they rely on that money same as u or me would so would u travel and cost of your own 3 times a week all over to work for free ?? "

Lots of players are gagging to play regardless of the risk from injury or disease. They are young and confident that the disease is something they can deal with if they get it. They'll travel to play at the highest level they can achieve. They'll travel for a night out or for a match.

I'm not so sure they are wise but they are desperate to get matches going again.

 But not for free

Edited September 15, 2020 by Derry

[Derry]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

"No but plenty of them will be paying there mortgage at least off this money "

Really!

Yes easily 

[Ceejayar]

4 hours ago, Dev said:

"U are so naive lol will u travel to work which this is for most of them as they rely on that money same as u or me would so would u travel and cost of your own 3 times a week all over to work for free ?? "

Lots of players are gagging to play regardless of the risk from injury or disease. They are young and confident that the disease is something they can deal with if they get it. They'll travel to play at the highest level they can achieve. They'll travel for a night out or for a match.

I'm not so sure they are wise but they are desperate to get matches going again.

I agree, but the bigger picture is that football is not all about the players or management it’s about the fans, Darvel got promotion to the Premier but it’s a hollow victory so to speak as none of the fans seen them do it and it will be the same this season if we win, lose or draw against anybody if we can’t get in to see it.

[Derry]

[FairWeatherFan]

 

[rncaa]

Good intentions but totally meaningless pointless statement and from who??? 

People aren't really getting this whole situation, letting in a small number of fans is only a small part of the problem and help no club financially anyway especially when you consider the financial outlay clubs will have to make to get anything going.  

Thats before you consider all the hassle a normal fan most of whom are over 50 will have to go through just to watch a non league game,  just isn't worth it. 

Any plans brought out by this new West of Scotland group will be pointless its making plans for sake of it to say they are doing something as they are getting stick for being totally inept so far. 

Time people realise this season is done already. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by rncaa