Restart

[FairWeatherFan]

From a quick check of the wikipedia entries, three qualifiers have been cancelled across this season's CL & EL.

So for the "can't hide away forever" side of the argument: What's the plan to deal with the inevitable positive tests and self quarantining that will take place?

Postponements in an already compressed season don't really work. The typical 3-0 that can get awarded for games can actually be a punishment, especially in the mixed Conferences across the WoSFL & EoSFL.

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

9 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

And neither can you run football clubs without complying with what SFA demand. Everything so far has been aimed specifically at SPFL divisions, yet there are pub teams in SAFA rubbing their hands with glee at playing games within the fortnight. Utterly deluded. Until SFA spell out how football can function at this level, it will not happen, no matter what they allow. You can go to the theatre as of 15/8 (in England anyway) but none can meet the criteria to do so. Same will apply to football clubs up here unless things slackened.

How can you not you could easily socially distance in grounds. From tomorrow they can AT THIS LEVEL have contact training. Sitting in fear would mean we will be like this forever. Also outside is less likely to pass it on. I've been stuck in a supermarket during the height of this and not  1 positive case between the 5 stores in our area. 

It's been a bad thing but if we follow the science do what we need to do masks etc then we can live relatively normal lives. 

[Sancho Panza]

I really think "games with no fans" will be impossible financially for teams to survive.

I'm assuming clubs will start paying players when proper games commence?

I would go for fans in based on the following,

Details provided, in advance of possible.Encourage early arrival and staggered departure.

Social distancing at food and drink outlets, use outside where possible.

Minimise / rotate numbers in changing areas.

Masks to be worn on supporters buses.

We are a long way off getting back to "normal" but a middle ground might work.

So many different thoughts and opinions on this bloody virus and no 100% right of wrong way to proceed in my opinion.

I think if it has hit any of your friends or family then your view may very well be swayed. 

[Andy groundhopper]

Difficult times, but I guess that people who say NO to restart, haven't been to the shops, pubs etc by now ? We do the basic cleaning stuff and wear masks (most people) but I think the ONLY problems are with the players and staff. Read some leagues say : home players turn up changed/ away clubs socially distanced in both changing rooms/showers and then intense cleaning afterwards (who does this ? )  Think some leagues will take the gamble and see what happens.

[cmontheloknow]

5 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

How can you not you could easily socially distance in grounds. From tomorrow they can AT THIS LEVEL have contact training. Sitting in fear would mean we will be like this forever. Also outside is less likely to pass it on. I've been stuck in a supermarket during the height of this and not  1 positive case between the 5 stores in our area. 

It's been a bad thing but if we follow the science do what we need to do masks etc then we can live relatively normal lives. 

Ok for one, which age groups do we think have the greatest issue with compliance, and which gender? I am going to stereotype and say young men, school age to 40s. They say integrity is doing the right thing when you think no one is looking. There will be less of a spotlight on tiers 5 and below, right down to the SAFA. So will all these young men do what they're required to? No one will be watching after all as there is no way they can be watched.

The return to training is great, especially as there is very little community transmission right now. Some parts of Scotland practically escaped covid in the spring but will be the be so lucky in future months? Those areas still have their highly vulnerable, unlike other parts of UK.

I think things will settle down but I don't think we've reached that point yet. I have absolutely no belief that 2020-21, if it starts, will finish. Even Neil DOncaster has conceded there will be issues in the months ahead.

I have no doubt we can 'easily' socially distance in grounds but I have never been to a game where people volunteer to stand metres apart from one another and it is not going to happen as it won't be complied with. People don't consistently socially distance in workplaces, or in queues at the supermarket etc etc.

I also think there are wider issues about supporter safety that the middens of the non-league scene cannot get close to dealing with. If someone pays an entry fee, are they expected to sign a waiver that says 'you enter at your own risk'? Just takes a litigious type to contract covid from an unsanitised barrier to stir that hornet's nest.

Edited August 23, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[Dev]

It's a tough problem for those in positions of responsibility to deal with, that's for sure.

I assume that when spectators are allowed back in to watch matches outside the SPFL that there will be social distancing and face coverings involved. Presumably only people who are registered in some way and, therefore, traceable, will be allowed in at first e.g. season ticket holders, club members and officials etc, if needs be. Also the numbers present will be restricted, increasing over time towards normal.

From what I can make out there are "hot-spots" dotted around the UK but, in the main, the disease is at a low level at present. Authorities seem to be clamping down rapidly on any flare-ups too.

There seem to be issues with some groups of people in society who seem to underestimate the seriousness of the disease not only to themselves but to their friends, families and acquaintances. Some seem to think that they are immune and cannot be a risk to others. I suppose that's human nature for you. There will always be some who will go their own way regardless of the implications for others.

In football terms though, with a restricted season, with no room in the calendar for all eligible clubs to be included in the SFA Cup (but space for other less meaningful cup competitions involving SPFL clubs) it may be that leagues at Tier 5 and below, and outside the current pyramid structure, will need to choose between playing postponed matches at a later date or, even, awarding set score-lines if there is no room for postponed matches to be played. Such postponed matches may not just be for Covid reasons! Maybe 1-1 results awarded for weather/pitch reason postponements and 3-0's for Covid reason postponements. Just throwing the thought out there for debate in this quiet season.

 

 

[andy25]

Why if your at football standing outside socially distracted would you have to wear a face mask? But indoors in a busy pub no social distancing you dont?

It's a tough problem for those in positions of responsibility to deal with, that's for sure.
I assume that when spectators are allowed back in to watch matches outside the SPFL that there will be social distancing and face coverings involved. Presumably only people who are registered in some way and, therefore, traceable, will be allowed in at first e.g. season ticket holders, club members and officials etc, if needs be. Also the numbers present will be restricted, increasing over time towards normal.
From what I can make out there are "hot-spots" dotted around the UK but, in the main, the disease is at a low level at present. Authorities seem to be clamping down rapidly on any flare-ups too.
There seem to be issues with some groups of people in society who seem to underestimate the seriousness of the disease not only to themselves but to their friends, families and acquaintances. Some seem to think that they are immune and cannot be a risk to others. I suppose that's human nature for you. There will always be some who will go their own way regardless of the implications for others.
In football terms though, with a restricted season, with no room in the calendar for all eligible clubs to be included in the SFA Cup (but space for other less meaningful cup competitions involving SPFL clubs) it may be that leagues at Tier 5 and below, and outside the current pyramid structure, will need to choose between playing postponed matches at a later date or, even, awarding set score-lines if there is no room for postponed matches to be played. Such postponed matches may not just be for Covid reasons! Maybe 1-1 results awarded for weather/pitch reason postponements and 3-0's for Covid reason postponements. Just throwing the thought out there for debate in this quiet season.
 
 

[Ceejayar]

So at this stage I would think playing budgets have been set and squads signed up based on playing at full capacity I.e. paying spectators, hospitality, bar takings ets etc. If the league starts with say half of the normal facilities due to social distancing will the players take half their wages, I don’t think they will and I wouldn’t expect them to.... that is where financial problems will arise for clubs, if they have a playing budget and the income is halved where do they find the shortfall

[Innocent bystander]

A lot of valid points being posted but far too many “grey areas” at this time for the SFA to approve matches at this level. Reassess in December when the country is hopefully in a better place in relation to the virus with a view to starting early in the new year.

[Stag Nation]

25 minutes ago, Ceejayar said:

So at this stage I would think playing budgets have been set and squads signed up based on playing at full capacity I.e. paying spectators, hospitality, bar takings ets etc. If the league starts with say half of the normal facilities due to social distancing will the players take half their wages, I don’t think they will and I wouldn’t expect them to.... that is where financial problems will arise for clubs, if they have a playing budget and the income is halved where do they find the shortfall

Anyone who set a budget based on full capacity is an incompetent idiot.

[Sancho Panza]

4 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Anyone who set a budget based on full capacity is an incompetent idiot.

The similar idiot might think you can run a club and pay players with no income.

[Ceejayar]

34 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Anyone who set a budget based on full capacity is an incompetent idiot.

Budgets would have been set months ago, all the way from premier all the way down through the leagues.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, andy25 said:

Why if your at football standing outside socially distracted would you have to wear a face mask? But indoors in a busy pub no social distancing you dont?

If some pubs are busy with no social distancing at the moment, they're probably the ones that are needing shut again pronto.

Nobody's advocating hiding away for the rest of our lives, but equally there has to be cognisance of the fact that although the virus has been brought down to low levels, it hasn't gone away and if that means making changes to our behaviour to allow more things to start again and remain started, then so be it.

If that also means wearing a mask it'll mean wearing a mask...and not that lip service dick move of wearing it round the chin like I've seen more than a few doing!  If it's that much of a dealbreaker for some folk to wear one in order to allow games to take place, it's probably better they stay away.

It's better to wear a mask for a couple of hours than be on a ventilator for a month.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Hillonearth

[Ceejayar]

59 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

The similar idiot might think you can run a club and pay players with no income.

Kind of my point, unless we can start at 100% clubs are going to struggle financially.

[glensmad]

Kind of my point, unless we can start at 100% clubs are going to struggle financially.

The vast majority of clubs will be able to have their normal 100% attendances even with social distancing.

[Ceejayar]

12 minutes ago, glensmad said:

31 minutes ago, Ceejayar said:

Kind of my point, unless we can start at 100% clubs are going to struggle financially.

The vast majority of clubs will be able to have their normal 100% attendances even with social distancing.

I would agree on attendance but there will be revenue lost on hospitality and bar income I would think.

[Stag Nation]

1 hour ago, Ceejayar said:

Budgets would have been set months ago, all the way from premier all the way down through the leagues.

Budgets are not "set" in tablets of stone. Any comptetent management would have changed the budget in the light of the new circumstances. Which, incidentally, we knew about "months ago".

[andy25]

The chances of ending up on a ventilator are minuscule.

If some pubs are busy with no social distancing at the moment, they're probably the ones that are needing shut again pronto.
Nobody's advocating hiding away for the rest of our lives, but equally there has to be cognisance of the fact that although the virus has been brought down to low levels, it hasn't gone away and if that means making changes to our behaviour to allow more things to start again and remain started, then so be it.
If that also means wearing a mask it'll mean wearing a mask...and not that lip service dick move of wearing it round the chin like I've seen more than a few doing!  If it's that much of a dealbreaker for some folk to wear one in order to allow games to take place, it's probably better they stay away.
It's better to wear a mask for a couple of hours than be on a ventilator for a month.

[Hillonearth]

20 minutes ago, andy25 said:

The chances of ending up on a ventilator are minuscule.

So are the chances of stepping off the pavement straight under a bus, but that doesn't mean we can just stop looking to see if anything's coming before we step off them.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Hillonearth

[Ceejayar]

44 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Budgets are not "set" in tablets of stone. Any comptetent management would have changed the budget in the light of the new circumstances. Which, incidentally, we knew about "months ago".

Oh well, everything will be ok then, sorry for an opinion.