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Queen's Park 2020/21


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Motherwell, Airdrie, QOS and Annan. 

Don't think we can expect to be getting out of that one, but hopefully we can be more competitive than we were against the full-timers last season and pick up a result or two. 

Motherwell away would be preferable. Been to the other three either recently or a million times before. 

Fixtures out next week, so we'll surely find out where we're going to be playing? Or perhaps that's being overly optimistic. 

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1 hour ago, Ben Reilly said:

Here's a question I wonder if anyone on here can help with. Are Queens Park fan owned?
I was reading an article of the Supporters Direct Scotland website this morning about the 'fan bank' fund to help clubs that are transitioning to fan ownership. A number of clubs were listed as being fan owned (Clyde, Stirling Albion, Motherwell and most recently Morton, among others) but we were not on that list.
I was under the impression that the members owned the club, as we have no majority share holder or 'owner'.
Is that different to fan ownership and if so how?
I have no agenda here, and don't particularly advocate for or against fan ownership (in truth I don't fully understand all the details) I'm just genuinely intrigued about the difference between our model and the clubs that were listed.

Queen’s Park Football Club Limited is the legal entity. The company was Incorporated in 1903. There are currently 13 officers, 12 directors and the company secretary. The company’s Memorandum and Articles of Association record that the business of the club is “defined by a signed agreement between the President, Treasurers and other Committee Members...” The current company Directors also form most of the Committee.

To become a member you must apply in writing to the Committee. If successful, you become a a Member of the Company. If the company is wound up Members have a liability limited to £5. Paying an annual membership entitles access to games.

It’s not equivocal in terms of shareholders, owners etc but in the legal structure the Members are subordinate to the Committee/Directors. In theory, as each Committee member, including the President and Treasurer, has two years in office and has to be elected or re-elected by the Members and as such Members could choose not to elect. In practise, that’s improbable.

Whichever way you look at it, the Committee has all the power and decision-making. Article 41 makes this very clear.

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2 hours ago, Ben Reilly said:

Here's a question I wonder if anyone on here can help with. Are Queens Park fan owned?
I was reading an article of the Supporters Direct Scotland website this morning about the 'fan bank' fund to help clubs that are transitioning to fan ownership. A number of clubs were listed as being fan owned (Clyde, Stirling Albion, Motherwell and most recently Morton, among others) but we were not on that list.
I was under the impression that the members owned the club, as we have no majority share holder or 'owner'.
Is that different to fan ownership and if so how?
I have no agenda here, and don't particularly advocate for or against fan ownership (in truth I don't fully understand all the details) I'm just genuinely intrigued about the difference between our model and the clubs that were listed.

I've pointed out to Supporters Direct Scotland on more than one occasion that, as a membership based club, Queen's Park should be regarded as being under fan ownership. They don't seem to want to know.

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2 hours ago, Ben Reilly said:

Here's a question I wonder if anyone on here can help with. Are Queens Park fan owned?
I was reading an article of the Supporters Direct Scotland website this morning about the 'fan bank' fund to help clubs that are transitioning to fan ownership. A number of clubs were listed as being fan owned (Clyde, Stirling Albion, Motherwell and most recently Morton, among others) but we were not on that list.
I was under the impression that the members owned the club, as we have no majority share holder or 'owner'.
Is that different to fan ownership and if so how?
I have no agenda here, and don't particularly advocate for or against fan ownership (in truth I don't fully understand all the details) I'm just genuinely intrigued about the difference between our model and the clubs that were listed.

The “fan ownership” model works like this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_interest_company

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43 minutes ago, an86 said:

Motherwell, Airdrie, QOS and Annan. 

Don't think we can expect to be getting out of that one, but hopefully we can be more competitive than we were against the full-timers last season and pick up a result or two. 

Motherwell away would be preferable. Been to the other three either recently or a million times before. 

Fixtures out next week, so we'll surely find out where we're going to be playing? Or perhaps that's being overly optimistic. 

They need to get rid of the north and south nonsense. QOTS and Airdrie were two I hoped to avoid. July is the best time to visit a new ground far away. 

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The “fan ownership” model works like this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_interest_company
Thanks for the time taken for a detailed response. However I don't think I'm any the wiser whether we are fan owned or not. The following statement in the wiki entry you linked about fan owned companies (CIC's) would seem to describe our situation given that none of the committee, directors or members make any money from their involvement (except the secretary who I assume is employed by the club)
"A community interest company is a business with primarily social objectives whose surpluses are principally reinvested for that purpose in the business or the community, rather than being driven by the need to maximize profit for shareholders and owners."

Does that then mean we do count as being fan owned as I Zingari suggests.

I'm not really bothered whether we are acknowledged as being fan owned by SDS, just confused about what the difference is.

Out of interest how many other clubs in the SPFL have the same Membership model as us? I imagine a fair number of clubs further down the pyramid and juniors will be but unaware of any in the national leagues.
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It is you Mr.Malcolm who is talking absolute pish. Young Mr.Coll was up against Andy Robertson at QP. If I remember rightly he scored with 3 penalties  in the final of the Reseve cup against Ayr, when I think Ayr had a young goalkeeper called William Muir. When Mr.Coll got into the QP team ( after Andy went to Dundee Utd ) he fell out QP and ended up at EK. He is a decent young player and if he has just signed for Stenhousemuir you have a decent player for next season

He’s shite , not a footballer in a million years . Like a rabbit in headlights .
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20 minutes ago, Ben Reilly said:


"A community interest company is a business with primarily social objectives whose surpluses are principally reinvested for that purpose in the business or the community, rather than being driven by the need to maximize profit for shareholders and owners."

Does that then mean we do count as being fan owned as I Zingari suggests.

I'm not really bothered whether we are acknowledged as being fan owned by SDS, just confused about what the difference is.

Out of interest how many other clubs in the SPFL have the same Membership model as us? I imagine a fair number of clubs further down the pyramid and juniors will be but unaware of any in the national leagues.

Any surpluses are kept within the club and not paid out so that would fit with the description given.

I think Brechin had a similar model but were looking at changing their set up before their relegation, not aware of any others.

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Posted (edited)

Certainly going to be an interesting topic of discussion in the coming months. The current model is not fit for purpose for a full-time professional football club. The community club model is certainly something I'd be interested in hearing more about. Given the way we're talking, I think that might be the road we go down. Whatever way we do go, it is imperative that the supporters are still given a voice, though.

Edited by an86
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Craig Slater signed a 2 year deal at Forfar. Would be a great signing for them if he stays fit. Hope he can do, and does well there. Shame things didn't work out for him with us.

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5 hours ago, Ben Reilly said:

Thanks for the time taken for a detailed response. However I don't think I'm any the wiser whether we are fan owned or not. The following statement in the wiki entry you linked about fan owned companies (CIC's) would seem to describe our situation given that none of the committee, directors or members make any money from their involvement (except the secretary who I assume is employed by the club)
"A community interest company is a business with primarily social objectives whose surpluses are principally reinvested for that purpose in the business or the community, rather than being driven by the need to maximize profit for shareholders and owners."

Does that then mean we do count as being fan owned as I Zingari suggests.

I'm not really bothered whether we are acknowledged as being fan owned by SDS, just confused about what the difference is.

Out of interest how many other clubs in the SPFL have the same Membership model as us? I imagine a fair number of clubs further down the pyramid and juniors will be but unaware of any in the national leagues.

CIC is similar to a limited company. We’re not fan-owned. We’re a business limited with limited liabilities. Our Articles state the company is run by the Committee. When members vote in a Committee they empower them to conduct all business matters on behalf of the membership.

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10 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

CIC is similar to a limited company. We’re not fan-owned. We’re a business limited with limited liabilities. Our Articles state the company is run by the Committee. When members vote in a Committee they empower them to conduct all business matters on behalf of the membership.

The fan-led community ownership clubs are limited companies, with members who appoint directors at AGM's. While not the same model as Queen's Park, in terms of "fan ownership" they do not seem too different.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Spider Rico said:

I see Stuart Garden is moving to Livingston as a goalie coach now.

 

Surely if Livingston and Forfar can announce slater and Stuart garden joining the respective clubs, then surely there is no issue in QP announcing the departures? Honestly don’t see what is so difficult to announce these things. Communication is beyond a joke at this point, I’m more surprised seeing any relevant news than not now. As far as I’m aware, the club didn’t even mention McKinnon getting league 2 manager of the year. I know he had left by that point but at the very least acknowledge it. 

But on the bright side, least you can get a scarf 🙄

Edited by qpfc
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3 hours ago, I Zingari said:

The fan-led community ownership clubs are limited companies, with members who appoint directors at AGM's. While not the same model as Queen's Park, in terms of "fan ownership" they do not seem too different.

I said it was similar. Maybe this will be more helpful. There’s many like it on Google. The CIC model wasn’t around in 1903. I think the biggest attraction to CIC is the restrictions on movement of assets. Our articles don’t have that. If the Directors/Committee decided to sell Lesser and dissolve the Company it doesn’t look to me as if anyone could stop them. Not for a second intimating that. But as Members of the club we have a legal liability for any debts, albeit limited, so we have a legal, as well as any moral or goodwill, right to know what’s going on. In my humble opinion.

https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge-base/guide-to-community-interest-companies-and-companies-limited-by-guarantee

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC005382

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19 hours ago, JT1867 said:

Any surpluses are kept within the club and not paid out so that would fit with the description given.

I think Brechin had a similar model but were looking at changing their set up before their relegation, not aware of any others.

That’s also the model for a company limited by guarantee, which QPFC is. 

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Where are QP planning on playing next season?

Reading thread in another sub-forum about groundshares and noticed only licensed grounds in Glasgow/surrounds with 3G parks but not already 2 clubs are Hamilton and East Kilbride.

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