27 games. 14,10,10,10

[craigkillie]

I remain of the view that the only fair outcomes are null and void or 14-10-10-10. If you accept the arguments from Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove (and Brora and Kelty) that they have already spent big preparing for a season in the leagues above, then it’s probably now too late for null and void, so 14-10-10-10 is the only remaining fair outcome.

The worrying thing is how long the hatred that this episode has brought about will last. There are still very many fans of Stranraer etc that continue to hate (the original) Rangers because of their attempt to close us down in the early 1960s. I fear that Dundee United, Raith and Cove will be similarly hated 50 years from now.

Why would Dundee United, Raith or Cove be hated? They happen to be beneficiaries of the decision to end the season, but they weren't any more responsible for it than any of the other 31 clubs who also voted for it.

[khalidonianb]

45 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Why would Dundee United, Raith or Cove be hated? They happen to be beneficiaries of the decision to end the season, but they weren't any more responsible for it than any of the other 31 clubs who also voted for it.

I think he's being funny. 

[AL-FFC]

 

3 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

I don’t see how they can take action against us. We haven’t prevented promotion. If we win the case, it will be the court that has prevented promotion.

 

They havent yet, the SPFL havent worked out if Hearts and yourselves have broken any rules yet.

[jagsfan57]

 
They havent yet, the SPFL havent worked out if Hearts and yourselves have broken any rules yet.

Don’t think it is up to the SPFL to decide though. That’s up to the courts isn’t it ?

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, khalidonianb said:

I think he's being funny. 

He's been a raging mess for months, so I doubt it.

[khalidonianb]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

He's been a raging mess for months, so I doubt it.

I stand corrected. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by khalidonianb
Typo

[khalidonianb]

I stand corrected.

[AL-FFC]

1 hour ago, jagsfan57 said:

Don’t think it is up to the SPFL to decide though. That’s up to the courts isn’t it ?

SFA intervene into it, 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53119566

In the petition, the clubs asked for a judge to scrap promotions and relegations throughout all four of Scotland's divisions.

That sparked a robust response from Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers, who would stay down despite being named champions. 

Hearts and Thistle have said they "reserve the right" to apply for an interim interdict to prevent the Premiership season starting.

However, Winnie says that would be "a risky strategy" and that he would be "very surprised" if a judge determined that the league should not begin on 1 August. 

The SPFL have until Tuesday to respond and Hearts and Thistle have asked for an expedited hearing.

The court will either decree they have jurisdiction to adjudicate or will decide it is a matter for the SPFL.

Winnie, who also played briefly for Hearts in the mid-1990s, says a settlement agreement to avoid a court case seems unlikely.

It has been reported Hearts and Thistle may be in breach of Article 99 of the Scottish FA's Articles of Association. 

The legal opinion received by the clubs is that they have not breached that rule, as their main dispute is with the SPFL. However, that remains open to interpretation. 

No deadline has been set for the duo to reply to the letters, which will also ask why they have chosen not to ask the governing body to arbitrate.

However, depending on their response to the compliance officer, Hearts and Thistle could be issues notices of complaint and face a judicial panel charge.

Bit of a can of worms really as it says the dispute is with the SPFL but open to interpretation.

 

[Forest_Fifer]

I remain of the view that the only fair outcomes are null and void or 14-10-10-10. If you accept the arguments from Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove (and Brora and Kelty) that they have already spent big preparing for a season in the leagues above, then it’s probably now too late for null and void, so 14-10-10-10 is the only remaining fair outcome.

The worrying thing is how long the hatred that this episode has brought about will last. There are still very many fans of Stranraer etc that continue to hate (the original) Rangers because of their attempt to close us down in the early 1960s. I fear that Dundee United, Raith and Cove will be similarly hated 50 years from now.

Whit? Your takeaway from this is that DU/RR/Cove are the ones who will be hated? Fucking hell.

[Forest_Fifer]

I think he's being funny. 

I hope so. The alternative is almost too horrific to contemplate.

[JagsCG]

5 hours ago, virginton said:

The only clubs to be held - rightly - in contempt for their actions throughout this saga will be Hearts, Partick and Stranraer respectively.

Untrue, there are more than 3 clubs in the country that have been embarrassing throughout all of these last 3 months. The whole lot of Scottish Football have, it’s a blatant lie to try and portray Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer as being sinners and everyone else saints. Although I’m sure that view suits many people.  Hearts were always going to court, clubs Knew this, agree with them or not, it was quite clear if they didn’t get reconstruction they’d go for legal action. But yet reconstruction was voted down, so what are they meant to do, lie down and take it?  Hearts don’t want to be going to court, of course they don’t, they wanted reconstruction, but majority didn’t, so Hearts are going for “plan B”. I don’t think they’ll win, but no club should have to sit in silence if they believe they have a case or something to say. 

[vikingTON]

If only the chair of the SPFL's own reconstruction committee - a certain Budge, A. - had helped produce a proposal that wasn't an utter crock of self-serving shite. But that's what they came up with, which is why it was resoundingly defeated.

Absolutely nothing about that or anything else gives Hearts or indeed any other club legitimate grounds to whine about their plight in the courts. You lost, get over it and get doon.

[JagsCG]

16 minutes ago, virginton said:

If only the chair of the SPFL's own reconstruction committee - a certain Budge, A. - had helped produce a proposal that wasn't an utter crock of self-serving shite. But that's what they came up with, which is why it was resoundingly defeated.

Absolutely nothing about that or anything else gives Hearts or indeed any other club legitimate grounds to whine about their plight in the courts. You lost, get over it and get doon.

Actually the last reconstruction vote was on a permanent14-10-10-10 which was originally suggested by Livingston, not Ann Budge. And unfortunately you don’t decide and neither do I or anyone else, what is entitled to go to court over, if clubs, any club or business in this country feels they have a point which merits examination by powers that be, then they are entitled, to be heard. Whether you agree with that point or disagree with that. 

[Andy groundhopper]

Correct,the 3 (promoted) clubs have done nothing wrong and have every right to defend themselves. As to being hated, by whom ? 15,000 Hearts fans and 5,000 Patrick, not exactly scary is it ? Sure all the spfl would be against Hearts rather than these 3 clubs. Or was the 'donation' cash to buy their silence ?

[JagsCG]

12 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Correct,the 3 (promoted) clubs have done nothing wrong and have every right to defend themselves. As to being hated, by whom ? 15,000 Hearts fans and 5,000 Patrick, not exactly scary is it ?

As a Jags fan, (And I only speak for me) I have literally no hate towards Dundee United, Raith or Cove for getting promoted. So I don’t think Many Hearts or Thistle fans would have great issue with them for that, particularly in United and Cove’s case they were simply too good for anyone else in their respective leagues, I’m not sure many would argue with that. 

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

2 hours ago, JagsCG said:

Untrue, there are more than 3 clubs in the country that have been embarrassing throughout all of these last 3 months. The whole lot of Scottish Football have, it’s a blatant lie to try and portray Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer as being sinners and everyone else saints. Although I’m sure that view suits many people.  Hearts were always going to court, clubs Knew this, agree with them or not, it was quite clear if they didn’t get reconstruction they’d go for legal action. But yet reconstruction was voted down, so what are they meant to do, lie down and take it?  Hearts don’t want to be going to court, of course they don’t, they wanted reconstruction, but majority didn’t, so Hearts are going for “plan B”. I don’t think they’ll win, but no club should have to sit in silence if they believe they have a case or something to say. 

Translation

Hearts wanted something, the majority did not agree, so Hearts threatened the others with a financial penalty because they did not get their way. Thistle sneaked in too, just in case there was something to gain for no cost. Stranraer? Well they at least are showing some dignity as the other two use them to build their case by pretending they care.

[JagsCG]

5 minutes ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

Translation

Hearts wanted something, the majority did not agree, so Hearts threatened the others with a financial penalty because they did not get their way. Thistle sneaked in too, just in case there was something to gain for no cost. Stranraer? Well they at least are showing some dignity as the other two use them to build their case by pretending they care.

If you want to make that point, you are 100% entitled to do so. But that translates nothing of what I was saying or the point I was trying to make at all, which I’m sure you already know. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by JagsCG

[Forest_Fifer]

Actually the last reconstruction vote was on a permanent14-10-10-10 which was originally suggested by Livingston, not Ann Budge. And unfortunately you don’t decide and neither do I or anyone else, what is entitled to go to court over, if clubs, any club or business in this country feels they have a point which merits examination by powers that be, then they are entitled, to be heard. Whether you agree with that point or disagree with that. 

If the original 14 10 10 10 proposal had been a permanent arrangement, it might (and I emphasise might) have had a chance.

[JagsCG]

10 minutes ago, Forest_Fifer said:

If the original 14 10 10 10 proposal had been a permanent arrangement, it might (and I emphasise might) have had a chance.

Would still have probably fell in the Premiership. Aberdeen were only for temp, St Mirren and St Johnstone were always against reconstruction at this time I think. 

I’d agree, 1. It’s the best solution, 2. It would have got most support had it always been the plan, like when Livi suggested it. 

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, Forest_Fifer said:

3 hours ago, JagsCG said:

Actually the last reconstruction vote was on a permanent14-10-10-10 which was originally suggested by Livingston, not Ann Budge. And unfortunately you don’t decide and neither do I or anyone else, what is entitled to go to court over, if clubs, any club or business in this country feels they have a point which merits examination by powers that be, then they are entitled, to be heard. Whether you agree with that point or disagree with that. 

If the original 14 10 10 10 proposal had been a permanent arrangement, it might (and I emphasise might) have had a chance.

Needed a better distribution of funds to clubs expecting to be in the bottom 8, or a different split, and bigger parachute payments for League 2. All doable though, if the problems had actually been discussed.