Sergeant Wilson Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, JagsCG said: Sounds like they have taken legal advice, but I don’t see what they can do until a decision is made regarding their promotions. Because right now as it sits, they are promoted. It’s not quite null and void because she said she wasn’t wanting to affect the positions teams finished in, so the season would still stand just no promotion or relegation. Not promoting Dundee United and Cove is just as bad as the relegation of Thistle and Hearts. This could still get sorted outside of court I think. Your Honour, to sum up, it is patently unfair to disadvantage and relegate these three teams. It is more equitable not to promote and disadvantage these three other clubs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Well that would have been the ideal scenario but the same time as you mentioned its coming to add additonal costs. Doncaster should have some sort of thought out plan to deal with this but they said we're giving you 3 options but your only allowed to vote for option 1. We now have the situation where clubs are just basically voting for whats best for their club (i know, i know self interest) over whats right for the game. But theres divide over all of this and will take years to recover. There was never going to be any fair way to end the season and the null and void would have been the only scenario where everyone was in a no win situation.The ideal scenario that would have seen Rangers parachuted straight back into the top flight, the lower leagues awash with Colt teams and god knows what other decisions that would have brought in against the wishes of the clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: How do you make that out? Firstly it's immaterial, they won't win. But if they did the cost would be proportionate. Your reasoning is back to front. Celtic could pay it all and still win the league with their remaining funds. Albion Rivers could go bust if they were £5k short in their allocation. I reckon we'd cope and others would too so it's hardly a complete financial meltdown for all 42 teams.The new deal is worth approx 30 odd million a season so you're basically losing third of your prize money if you pay it in one go or less if you can pay it over the next few seasons. Clubs in the lower leagues should be able to cut costs accordingly if necessary. I would presume this years exact prize money hasn't even been announced yet as doncaster keeps giving some of it away. Edited June 19, 2020 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagsCG Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Your Honour, to sum up, it is patently unfair to disadvantage and relegate these three teams. It is more equitable not to promote and disadvantage these three other clubs. Well tbf (and I completely disagree with denying promotions) what are United, Raith and Cove going to say? If Hearts/Thistle win a legal case because they weren’t officially over the line of relegation therefore can’t be relegated, with that same token, you could say, they weren’t over the line of promotion. (I disagree with that, well in Dundee United and Cove’s case, but that is what may be said). Hearts have the ability of saying, we officially weren’t relegated, and that goes in their favour, the promoted trio can’t say, they officially weren’t promoted, that would go against them. No promotions should be denied No relegations should take place. said it months ago, and still stand by it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghBlue Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Certainly the top flight would struggle and some championship but league one and two should cope.A just reward for their greed IMHO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, EdinburghBlue said: A just reward for their greed IMHO The red neck of a Stranraer trying to claim others are being "greedy" and doing things out of "self interest". Stranraer were 8 points adrift at the bottom and have won two league games all season, yet you're here trying to claim youre only dropping a tier because of how top flight clubs voted. I'm sure your wee hissy fit and constant prayers for Hearts and Partick has nothing to do with hoping your club can get a reprieve for a frankly rancid season. Edited June 20, 2020 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 13 hours ago, stuartcraig said: Dundee Utd, Raith & Cove Rangers will 'robustly defend' right to promotion https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53111932 So it sounds like Budge is trying to force the null and void option. It hasnt went to a members vote yet whats been reported is it needs to bring about from 3 clubs to bring a members vote to discipline hearts and Partick, the thing is the SPFL havent yet decidied if Hearts and Partick have broken any rules so they cant put it to a members vote for them to be discipline they wont go for the expel option they wouldnt chance it so your left with fine or ejected from the challenge cup as the punishment if they do find they have breached the rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 minute ago, AL-FFC said: It hasnt went to a members vote yet whats been reported is it needs to bring about from 3 clubs to bring a members vote to discipline hearts and Partick, the thing is the SPFL havent yet decidied if Hearts and Partick have broken any rules so they cant put it to a members vote for them to be discipline they wont go for the expel option they wouldnt chance it so your left with fine or ejected from the challenge cup as the punishment if they do find they have breached the rules. Why is it the challenge cup but not the league cup? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Shadwell Dog said: Why is it the challenge cup but not the league cup? Its probably cause its the one for all the diddy teams and they want to be seen to try and showcase the league cup but thats what the punishment is apparently even if it comes to a fine whats the penalty for them not paying it The only thing they have yet to decide is if Hearts and Partick jumped the gun by going legal instead of going to the SPFL for arbitration to see if it could be settled out of court (wasnt that the whole idea of the reconstruction talks?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 36 minutes ago, AL-FFC said: It hasnt went to a members vote yet whats been reported is it needs to bring about from 3 clubs to bring a members vote to discipline hearts and Partick, the thing is the SPFL havent yet decidied if Hearts and Partick have broken any rules so they cant put it to a members vote for them to be discipline they wont go for the expel option they wouldnt chance it so your left with fine or ejected from the challenge cup as the punishment if they do find they have breached the rules. 34 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Why is it the challenge cup but not the league cup? The "challenge cup", I'm sure, is just the SFAs name for the Scottish Cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 They should expel Falkirk for haudin' their jaickets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Sergeant Wilson said: They should expel Falkirk for haudin' their jaickets. We're just going to sit back and enjoy watching the carnage. Feck all else to watch for a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 13 hours ago, JagsCG said: Definitely agree about it being nowhere near £10m that’s optimistic in the extreme. What I do see, is Thistle being a League One club next season, and Hearts being a Championship club. Whatever that means about court, or pay-offs, but I can’t see anything other than those clubs in those leagues. We actually have a similar scenario to look at. 2003/04, Partick finish bottom of the SPL after 38 games. ICT finish top of the First Division. ICTs stadium doesnt meet the ridiculous "SPL criteria", so they agree to groundshare with Aberdeen. First vote failed, so Partick were to remain in the top flight. Hearts and Hibs claimed "unclear advice" was given in the lead up to the vote. Partick go to court to try and prevent a second vote being held. Court rules against Partick. Second vote held, ICT promoted and Partick relegated, and the future capacity requirement lowered to prevent further issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLanarkshireWhite Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: We actually have a similar scenario to look at. 2003/04, Partick finish bottom of the SPL after 38 games. ICT finish top of the First Division. ICTs stadium doesnt meet the ridiculous "SPL criteria", so they agree to groundshare with Aberdeen. First vote failed, so Partick were to remain in the top flight. Hearts and Hibs claimed "unclear advice" was given in the lead up to the vote. Partick go to court to try and prevent a second vote being held. Court rules against Partick. Second vote held, ICT promoted and Partick relegated, and the future capacity requirement lowered to prevent further issues. I didn't know that. Probably was too sore after losing to ICT at Broadwood to pay any attention, but we were already in agreement to share with Kilmarnock (30 miles) if we had won the league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan57 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Well 3 member clubs have taken legal action against Hearts/Partick now.I don’t see how they can take action against us. We haven’t prevented promotion. If we win the case, it will be the court that has prevented promotion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghBlue Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I don’t see how they can take action against us. We haven’t prevented promotion. If we win the case, it will be the court that has prevented promotion.I remain of the view that the only fair outcomes are null and void or 14-10-10-10. If you accept the arguments from Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove (and Brora and Kelty) that they have already spent big preparing for a season in the leagues above, then it’s probably now too late for null and void, so 14-10-10-10 is the only remaining fair outcome.The worrying thing is how long the hatred that this episode has brought about will last. There are still very many fans of Stranraer etc that continue to hate (the original) Rangers because of their attempt to close us down in the early 1960s. I fear that Dundee United, Raith and Cove will be similarly hated 50 years from now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 The only clubs to be held - rightly - in contempt for their actions throughout this saga will be Hearts, Partick and Stranraer respectively. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghBlue Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Stranraer were 8 points adrift at the bottom and have won two league games all season, yet you're here trying to claim youre (sic) only dropping a tier because of how top flight clubs voted. I'm sure your wee hissy fit and constant prayers for Hearts and Partick has nothing to do with hoping your club can get a reprieve for a frankly rancid season.Can I ask you to do my pools for me next season, since you clearly think you can predict future results? Our season had been “rancid”, but I can remember a season when we went from ninth in February to top in the last ten minutes of the season. Most fans of other clubs will be able to argue something similar for them. Football is never predictable (perhaps apart from the fact that we’ll be anticipating 30 in a row for Celtic 20 years from now), which is what makes it fun, and the SPFL’s decisions egregiously unfair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said: Can I ask you to do my pools for me next season, since you clearly think you can predict future results? Our season had been “rancid”, but I can remember a season when we went from ninth in February to top in the last ten minutes of the season. Most fans of other clubs will be able to argue something similar for them. Football is never predictable (perhaps apart from the fact that we’ll be anticipating 30 in a row for Celtic 20 years from now), which is what makes it fun, and the SPFL’s decisions egregiously unfair. Theres a reason Hearts have paid for Partick to go to court with them, and left Stranraer to rot, and its because you were so obviously doomed that having your wee ragtag outfit trying to argue it's unfair to relegate teams would probably harm their case more than anything. 2 wins all season and 8pts adrift, yet trying to claim relegation has been unfairly forced onto you. Mental. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I remain of the view that the only fair outcomes are null and void or 14-10-10-10. If you accept the arguments from Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove (and Brora and Kelty) that they have already spent big preparing for a season in the leagues above, then it’s probably now too late for null and void, so 14-10-10-10 is the only remaining fair outcome.The worrying thing is how long the hatred that this episode has brought about will last. There are still very many fans of Stranraer etc that continue to hate (the original) Rangers because of their attempt to close us down in the early 1960s. I fear that Dundee United, Raith and Cove will be similarly hated 50 years from now.Will you be hating your manager and players for 50 years too?If they had won a few more games then you wouldn't be in this position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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