27 games. 14,10,10,10

[Adolfo Rios]

I think this could pass in the lower league vote (although not 100% certain) but getting anything to pass a 11-1 vote in the top flight will be the real difficulty.  You are asking chairpersons of the smaller top flight teams to take a hit to their cut of fees which will likely not be insignificant to their budgets.    

[craigkillie]

3 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Desperation doesn't cover it. Why do we appear to be the only league system in Europe looking to totally rejig the leagues over this?

The simple answer to this is that we aren't the only ones considering it - in fact four other leagues have already done so. We're one of 11 UEFA members who have completely ended our season, the others have already restarted (or are planning to) and thus have no need to rejig the league.

Of the 11 who have finished, here's what they've done:

Belgium - kept structure the same, one club relegated. Relegated team successful in court action, future plans unclear.
Bosnia & Herzegovina - kept structure the same, two clubs relegated.
Cyprus - no relegation, expanded top tier from 12 to 14.
France - kept structure the same, two clubs relegated. Relegated teams successful in court action, future plans unclear.
Gibraltar - every professional club already plays in the league.
Luxembourg - no relegation, expanded top tier from 14 to 16.
Malta - no relegation, expanded top tier from 14 to 16.
North Macedonia - no relegation, expanded top tier from 10 to 12.
Netherlands - no relegation or promotion.
Scotland - kept structure the same, one club relegated.
Wales - no decision made.

Edited June 11, 2020 by craigkillie

[AL-FFC]

You just know they are going to come out with the 14-10-10-10 but someone (Sevco or the other arsecheek) will suggest OF colts team to replace Brora or Kelty

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The simple answer to this is that we aren't the only ones considering it - in fact four other leagues have already done so. We're one of 11 UEFA members who have completely ended our season, the others have already started (or are planning to) and thus have no need to rejig the league.

Of the 11 who have finished, here's what they've done:

Belgium - kept structure the same, one club relegated. Relegated team successful in court action, future plans unclear.
Bosnia & Herzegovina - kept structure the same, two clubs relegated.
Cyprus - no relegation, expanded top tier from 12 to 14.
France - kept structure the same, two clubs relegated. Relegated teams successful in court action, future plans unclear.
Gibraltar - every professional club already plays in the league.
Luxembourg - no relegation, expanded top tier from 14 to 16.
Malta - no relegation, expanded top tier from 14 to 16.
North Macedonia - no relegation, expanded top tier from 10 to 12.
Netherlands - no relegation or promotion.
Scotland - kept structure the same, one club relegated.
Wales - no decision made.

Fair enough.

[Bluegrass Bairn]

Nothing will substantially change 'for the better of Scottish football' until the Sevco Taxes Dodgers and the Oirish Rovers are drowned in the sea. And take down their lackeys like The Doncaster, and media apologists like Tom (Colt teams good) English with them.  Fecking cnuts, with their patronising Project Braveheart... Elite Academies... Colts... Tea-cake cups... All a load of bollocks. 

There's no permutation of the leagues that'll re-dress the imbalance of our loaded set-up.

Ever-reducing competitive opportunity, arising from uneven distribution of resource, of funding, of support & of investment from on-high, means the best we'll likely get offered is survival, and told we should be grateful for it.   Happy fecking days! 

 

[Ballboy]

34 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Is the mood music suggesting this is likely to pass?

From what's being said among most clubs this proposal is the one that has most support across the 42 clubs.  So if reconstruction is going to happen this is how it will be.  

The only real blocker is clubs cant agree on the term.  Premier league want to change back as quickly as possible however most do not want the possibility of their club being in a relegation spot when it does. 

Also a few have concerns over a 27 game season giving some more home games than others and having to offer a 13/14 game season ticket.  Then the same principle as above filtering down. Meaning dont relegate 3 team now but it means we could be in relegation zones for any future change. 

Personally I don't see any change happening due to the self preservation but I just want it sorted.  

[The Moonster]

Aye the 27 game thing is shite. Must be a way round that.

[roman_bairn]

I'd prefer reconstruction was well thought out rather than rushed through in a month or so and without coming with the condition of "vote for this or we'll sue the league" from one Chairperson. I'd also rather the driver for that reconstruction was that everyone wants change rather than to save a big club from being relegated. 

Also, does this mean less money coming into the lower leagues with two more teams in the Prem needing higher prize money than 1st in the Champ? "Ambitious clubs to spice up the competitiveness". Lol. Gies a break, roman. We literally have a pyramid in place now, the mechanism is already there for "spicing" things up.

If Hearts weren't sitting bottom of the Prem, would reconstruction even be on the table? I highly doubt it, so I've got to ask myself if this is being done for the right reasons? A resounding no. Next question is, even though it's not for the right reasons, is it something we all want? Not really IMO. Fans have continually said they want bigger leagues across the board, not just for the Premiership. Fans have said they want fairer distribution of the prize money, but as I've said above this will likely mean more money going into the Premiership rather than the lower leagues.

The one thing we agree upon is that the split of revenue across the divisions is totally unfair.

However, keeping the status quo isn’t going to change that. Extending to 14 club top tier would force discussions which admittedly could go either way.

I still think that extending to 14 clubs is better for the middle tier clubs such as those in the Championship and ourselves and is what we have been crying out for for years.

Now it’s potentially here, like everything on here, it’s being dismissed out of hand by the usual suspects.....

[The Moonster]

Just now, roman_bairn said:

The one thing we agree upon is that the split of revenue across the divisions is totally unfair.
However, keeping the status quoted isn’t going to change that. Extending to 14 club top tier would force discussions which admittedly could go either way.
I still think that extending to 14 clubs is better for the middle tier clubs such as those in the Championship and ourselves and is what we have been crying out for for years.
Now it’s potentially here, like everything on here, it’s being dismissed out of hand by the usual suspects.....

How does moving to a 14 team league "force discussion"? We're having discussions now, why accept a half baked version of what we're really after when we can just discuss it now and implement it in a years time after some serious consideration of what it will mean?

How is this "being dismissed out of hand"? We're literally debating the pros and cons of it right now and at least two posters have given you valid reasons against the proposal. And what do you mean by "the usual suspects"?

[roman_bairn]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

How does moving to a 14 team league "force discussion"? We're having discussions now, why accept a half baked version of what we're really after when we can just discuss it now and implement it in a years time after some serious consideration of what it will mean?

How is this "being dismissed out of hand"? We're literally debating the pros and cons of it right now and at least two posters have given you valid reasons against the proposal. And what do you mean by "the usual suspects"?

Force discussions re the split of money. It can’t remain the same under a change of structure. 

It will, if nothing moves and all we do is sit on our arses and complain about what a bad deal we all have....

Edited June 11, 2020 by roman_bairn

[NavyBlueArmy1876]

Only in Scottish football could we have taken such an impressively long time to finally have the most logical option on the table in 14-10-10-10. Grievances from Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer, Edinburgh, Kelty and Brora dealt with in one swoop. Doesn't disadvantage the likes of Clyde & Peterhead either, yes missing out on some away day cash but an increased chance of promotion for themselves. Gives ourselves and Partick some teams to play if L1&2 aren't starting til Jan. The only argument against is I'd feel slightly sorry for Dundee and Ayr as they were only a couple of points behind Inverness, but given the weighted play-off system in the Championship they were unlikely to actually go up. A 14 team top league with a 6/8 split seems a bonkers concept but hopefully a gateway to expanding further in the future 

Edited June 11, 2020 by NavyBlueArmy1876

[The Moonster]

Just now, roman_bairn said:

Force discussions re the split of money. It can’t remain the same under a change of structure. 

It will, if nothing moves and all we do is sit n our arses and complain about what a bad deal we all have....

Yes, but we're having reconstruction discussions now - why aren't clubs pushing for better distribution of money right now? Or are they? Why can't we go ahead with next season as it is now and implement the reconstruction changes next year after a proper review process? That way everybody knows what positions will gain promotion/relegation and there will be no moans about fairness.

Just admit you want this proposal pushed through because it gives Falkirk a free ticket out of this league and a chance at getting into a bigger Premiership, and you're upset that "the usual suspects" (code for diddy clubs I guess) might prevent that.

 

[Shadwell Dog]

If it goes to a vote I would presume it would pass as there only going to a vote if they know they have enough votes to get it through. Mind you I'm sure Doncaster could still feck it up.

[NavyBlueArmy1876]

If the lower leagues back it I reckon it will pass, given it's the SPFLboard that has put this proposal forward. One or two premiership clubs won't want to be seen as holding the whole of Scottish football to ransom or be responsible for potentially triggering the setting off of Heart's legal minefield 

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

Reconstruction after the fact is inherently unfair. No change until the end of next season. 

[JagsCG]

21 minutes ago, NavyBlueArmy1876 said:

Only in Scottish football could we have taken such an impressively long time to finally have the most logical option on the table in 14-10-10-10. Grievances from Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer, Edinburgh, Kelty and Brora dealt with in one swoop. Doesn't disadvantage the likes of Clyde & Peterhead either, yes missing out on some away day cash but an increased chance of promotion for themselves. Gives ourselves and Partick some teams to play if L1&2 aren't starting til Jan. The only argument against is I'd feel slightly sorry for Dundee and Ayr as they were only a couple of points behind Inverness, but given the weighted play-off system in the Championship they were unlikely to actually go up. A 14 team top league with a 6/8 split seems a bonkers concept but hopefully a gateway to expanding further in the future 

The only two teams, that fall into a slight disadvantage I think, but you could look at it the other way, if Hearts aren’t relegated, and with Inverness and Dundee United promoted, far more chance of Dundee and Ayr (especially Dundee) getting promoted the following season. I agree, they could have mathematically caught up with Inverness and finished second though. 

[The Moonster]

15 minutes ago, NavyBlueArmy1876 said:

One or two premiership clubs won't want to be seen as holding the whole of Scottish football to ransom

[stuartcraig]

The only two teams, that fall into a slight disadvantage I think, but you could look at it the other way, if Hearts aren’t relegated, and with Inverness and Dundee United promoted, far more chance of Dundee and Ayr (especially Dundee) getting promoted the following season. I agree, they could have mathematically caught up with Inverness and finished second though. 

Plus all the teams in Leagues 1 and 2 who had a decent shout of a playoff spot. So about 8 in total.

[NavyBlueArmy1876]

16 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I appreciate the irony here. For years there has been almost unilateral resistance from the top league  to any sort of change (the fact the playoffs were actually agreed to was itself a medium sized miracle) whether it would benefit Scottiah football or not. However, over the last couple of weeks in particular there has been a notable change in mood imo. Like I said, the SPFL are effective at lobbying for the majority - or more specifically, for what they want to happen...eg to call the leagues they played Aberdeen and Dundee like fiddles. I wouldnt be surprised if the resolution fails but I think it will be close one way or the other 

Edited June 11, 2020 by NavyBlueArmy1876

[Guest Ecosse83]

I'm probably gonna get roasted for this but f**k it I'm gonna say it anyway. 

Part time teams shouldn't get to vote on matters like reconstruction, to me it just seems wrong that a teams with a few hundred fans at home games gets to vote on such important matters for the full time teams. 

I'm away to hide now