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George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests


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We should bear in mind that most police shootings will not be unlawful.  I’m not defending the amount simply stating that the USA has a massive gun problem and many criminals will use guns during a crime and be shot.

However I’m struggling to recall killings that most rational people would class as unlawful/unnecessary where the victim was white.

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Shooting from the hip a bit here but im sure i saw/read something to the effect there's a horrible modern slavery aspect to American prison labour too, with the Shawshank Redemption "here's a delightful pie stuffed with cash" scene not a million miles off what still goes on. 

Edited by Thistle_do_nicely
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3 hours ago, MixuFruit said:


I think the cannabis thing is much more important than you're giving credit. Think how many black guys have been imprisoned for possession compared to whites. Legalising it closes off a very easy route the police and courts could take to persecute blacks.

I agree it's an easy way for the police to lock folk up, however America like the UK prefers to ignore it's difficult history. America is the riches country in the world thanks entirely to their slave trade. It's no wonder that they still have people in power who treat black people like shit.

I don't think legalising weed is the big win people think it would be, I doubt in America you would be able to buy it before you're 21 so the police will still be able to lock up hundreds of young black men as they do now. Education would hopefully crack the system open.

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Just now, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Shooting from the hip a bit here but im sure i saw/read something to the effect there's a horrible modern slavery aspect to prison labour too, with the Shawshank Redemption "here's a delightful pie stuffed with cash" scene not a million miles off what still goes on. 

Leaving aside the corruption bit, private prisons are big business in the US.

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6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

However I’m struggling to recall killings that most rational people would class as unlawful/unnecessary where the victim was white.

Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

Princess Diana. 

 

 

🤫

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1 hour ago, Mr. Alli said:

Can you provide a source for your information? 

https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white

https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Jim-Crow-Michelle-Alexander/dp/1595586431/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=52992415877&dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwq832BRA5EiwACvCWsfhp6gyn0peSkM6O4i08FnMKbyi1dGST9VHa6NpF0BdfLmaAiYv3axoCtPQQAvD_BwE&hvadid=259066277668&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9046939&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6777185080995060549&hvtargid=kwd-301333115425&hydadcr=24402_1748874&keywords=the+new+jim+crow&qid=1590933247&sr=8-1

 

Two good places to start by the looks of it.

 

ETA: Also it's not just about whether people are prosecuted but ultimately what is deemed to be an offence and what the sentence that it should carry is. I think it's pretty much accepted fact now that the disproportionate sentencing between possession of crack and powder cocaine was fuelled by racial assumptions.

36 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I'm not trying to claim race isn't entangled with all of that stuff in way that's extremely difficult to unweave but it's pretty clear race is not the only factor in these things. Plenty of white people are murdered by the American police.

If you're arguing for an intersectional analysis of this then yes, I agree, but race is a pretty fundamental part of that especially in the United States, a country founded on white supremacy and slavery which has had two ultimately aborted attempts to properly reckon with that legacy.

The best way to look at it is that ultimately class is the biggest signifier of whether you're going to be oppressed but your race, gender, sexual orientation, religion and other identifiers all have a disproportionate impact on where you'e likely to end up.

Edited by NotThePars
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18 minutes ago, Mr Tourette said:

I’m intrigued by the “unknown” category at the end of that graph.

200 odd folk shot dead per year who don’t come under white, black, Hispanic or other? We’re they aliens or something?

Wouldn't be surprised to find out that "unknown" and "other" numbers were part of the continuing erasure from American history of Native Americans. Ironic given Minnesota comes from a Dakota Sioux word.

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5 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:


 

 

 


You can only solve multi-factor problems with multi-factor solutions. I'm not saying it's enough alone but it for sure forces the police to think a bit more creatively about how to keep persecuting black people. Combined with a lot of other things (like for example prosecuting and sentencing police more often, stopping the military offloading their obsolete tanks and drones onto them) will get there eventually.

 

 

Most of these critics don't actually want to discuss multi-factor solutions they just want to misrepresent you as having a simplistic approach so that you can be dismissed. Remember Hillary Clinton bumping her gums about how breaking up the banks won't solve racism? It might not immediately usher in a utopia like that Black Lives Matter Pepsi advert nearly managed but it would be a pretty fucking big step towards addressing some of the structural inequalities in America.

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the significant reduction actually had very little to do with police, initially they tried severer sentences which didnt do anything so went down the education route.... 
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-45572691
 

Makes point reduction didnt have anything to do with police then links to an article about a unit set up by the police and headed then and now by two respected police officers who’s work is world renowned.
Interesting.
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29 minutes ago, 101 said:

America is the riches country in the world thanks entirely to their slave trade. It's no wonder that they still have people in power who treat black people like shit.

The South got utterly steam rollered by the Union because the Union was non slaving, it was much wealthier, far more industrialised and its population was full of men who would fight for it.  Part of why the Civil War broke out was that small farmer generated far more wealth for the railroads and raised more of what today we would call GDP than the same land under slave plantation. Until the 50s and the advent of air conditioning the ex slave states were generally the poorest in the country. 

 

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The first step in solving a problem is to admit that the problem exists.

Trump’s National Security Advisor denies systematic racism exists in the USA and says the police are being hurt by “a few bad apples”.

 

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Black people comprise 12% of the US population.
16C2C828-AE51-4591-92EA-A147C330CB83.thumb.png.2b13286dd5375ae33fb5a91e61902768.png
Yes, I'm aware of these figures. I think we'd all acknowledge there are some serious problems in the US and that historic and systemic racism are built into these problems.

An extremely unproductive but common destination for these types of discussions is that people who broadly agree on the first paragraph get stuck in an argument which is essentially "what proportion of the problem is racism".
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It’s not  the only factor but to call it a bit of a sideshow is disingenuous.
How is it disingenuous? You can think it's wrong but it's what I think.

The fact that police in the US can and have callously murdered many people and gotten away with it is the central problem. This is what allows racist police officers to murder black people.

A solution to this problem is not police officers murdering people in proportion to the demographic breakdown.
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5 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

How is it disingenuous? You can think it's wrong but it's what I think.

Alrighty then.

Racism is a sideshow to all of these protests.

Fucking hell. Have you seen any news from the states in the 4 (or 50) years?

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3 hours ago, doulikefish said:

Im having a "bennett's life matter's" protest today.

 

Who is with me p@b 

A few years back they had a 'million man march' to DC to protest.

 

This could be the one man march.

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A few years back they had a 'million man march' to DC to protest.

 

This could be the one man march.

Still be more popular than Grimbo’s pub crawl. That was social distancing well before anyone had even heard of it. Ahead of his time, that boy was.

 

ETA: Beaten to it by the mushroom supper eating deviant. c**t.

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Incredible
 


That is truly fuckin mental there is clearly no hint of any disturbance in this street yes the aggression in the men’s voices shows exactly what the protesters are up against.
Firing live rounds at a house for f**k all is incredible serious and whoever did it, or gave the order for it should be looking at significant jail time but I suspect it will get lost in the big sea of everything seen this week.
They can’t let it simmer down or it’s clearly just going to happen again
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57 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:


A solution to this problem is not police officers murdering people in proportion to the demographic breakdown.

I don't even think the libs are advocating for this

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1 hour ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Alrighty then.

Racism is a sideshow to all of these protests.

Fucking hell. Have you seen any news from the states in the 4 (or 50) years?

I didn't say race is a sideshow to the protests. Race is clearly the main focus of the protests.

The racial element is to some extent a sideshow in the issue of police violence in the States. Because I think the main issue is the unacceptable level of lethal violence used by the police against the public in America. The disproportionate nature of that violence in terms of race is important but is not the main issue, for me. If that's the issue that's focused on, to the detriment of all else, I think that's a mistake.

Edited by Gordon EF
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