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George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

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3 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:
4 minutes ago, The OP said:
Yes I understand all that, was just musing on the wrongness of the specific point H_B had quoted. I do see some people on FB and Twitter really acting like they live in America though and greeting about the state of the world right now when shady shit goes on against marginalised people every day.

It's probably more relevant as we have a fucking hapless clown of a PM who seems to want us to be another US state.

Think amongst my own cohort if Taylor Swift tweeted about the Uighurs and Hong Kong and Yazidis and Kurds and whatever a few more embassies might take a pounding.

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6 minutes ago, LincolnHearts said:

Quality bit of virtue signalling from Jadon Sancho in the Dortmund game.

Bit of gammon on a Sunday. 

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1 minute ago, ali_91 said:

Bit of gammon on a Sunday. 

I thought you were a lentil man?

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Scores his second, but doesn't show his t-shirt message this time.

A second yellow/red would have made a difference.

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13 minutes ago, The OP said:

Think amongst my own cohort if Taylor Swift tweeted about the Uighurs and Hong Kong and Yazidis and Kurds and whatever a few more embassies might take a pounding.

People's attention shifts when it's not on live tv unfortunately.

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I did some voluntary work with a youth project aimed at redirecting vulnerable kids at risk of gang violence etc in Scotland. Id heard about a similar project in an area in Florida and met up with the guy (a sheriff deputy) who ran their version as I was over for a few weeks and curious as to how they worked things over their. I was genuinely astounded by the guys views, he made Franco look like a communist he was so right wing. Quickly made our excuses and didnt follow up his offer of meeting his family for a bbq etc. Very strange. Met some really good african american cops in LA etc, people who grew up in the neighbourhoods they policed, that seems to be missing amongst the white cops in the USA. Its very disturbing to see some of the things that have happened to cause and in response to these protests.

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8 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

People's attention shifts when it's not on live tv unfortunately.

At least people care about something I suppose. Don’t want to downplay the shitness of the black experience in America and the calculated way the shitness was concocted over the years.

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2 hours ago, The OP said:
I tend to think that if a police officer killed a suspect of a different ethnicity in the middle east, Asia or Africa precisely no British person on social media would give a f**k.

You're right but there's a few reasons why that means this isn't equivalent. Firstly if this happened it's likely it would at least make the news. Without the riots we'd not have heard anything about this poor guy being suffocated to death. Secondly we're a powerful majority so it wouldn't contribute to a narrative of us yet again being persecuted. I wouldn't worry for my own safety if a white British guy got killed in police custody in Egypt or wherever. Thirdly, generally speaking we white westerners don't feel like we're part of a community in the same way that a black Briton feels more of a visceral reaction & connection to Minneapolis. This isn't because we aren't a community, we are, but because the whole system is geared towards maintaining our preferential status we don't see it that way. This is why the white supremacist right, who really do operate as one community, are so scary as they're combining the sense of being left behind and shit on by society with being the people who can actually end up in government, kneeling on people's necks etc.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MixuFruit

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5 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

You're right but there's a few reasons why that means this isn't equivalent. Firstly if this happened it's likely it would at least make the news. Without the riots we'd not have heard anything about this poor guy being suffocated to death. Secondly we're a powerful majority so it wouldn't contribute to a narrative of us yet again being persecuted. I wouldn't worry for my own safety if a white British guy got killed in police custody in Egypt or wherever. Thirdly, generally speaking we white westerners don't feel like we're part of a community in the same way that a black Briton feels more of a visceral reaction & connection to Minneapolis. This isn't because we aren't a community, we are, but because the whole system is geared towards maintaining our preferential status. This is why the white supremacist right, who really do operate as one community, are so scary as they're combining the sense of being left behind and shit on by society with being the people who can actually end up in government, kneeling on people's necks etc.  

 

 

 

 

 

I said nothing about white people or British people (aside from in the context of their reaction to this story). That’s an almighty straw man you’ve just attacked.

Edited by The OP

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1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

Well no, clearly nobody is advocating for that. But it's the logical conclusion if someone thinks the main issue with police violence in the US is the racially imbalanced nature of it. 

 

I don't get what the point of this is. Who are you criticising and what are you looking for?

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I said nothing about white people or British people (aside from in the context of their reaction to this story). That’s an almighty straw man you’ve just attacked.

Haha fair enough neither you did.

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4 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

I don't get what the point of this is. Who are you criticising and what are you looking for?

I'm not criticising anyone or looking for anything? It's just a discussion, I'm not pretending I've got any of the answers for how to fix these types of things.

 

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12 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

I went to Philadelphia a couple of years ago to repair a couple of machines my work had sent  to a customer over there. We worked alongside a guy who was an ex-marine, he was sound enough when dealing with us but he gave off the vibe he could explode at any minute, the other guys that worked there were petrified of him. He kept 2 loaded guns in his jeep, and we found out from the manager that he had included a full page in his C.V. listing all the firearms that he was able to use. 

When I started at college over there, one of the guys in my class offered to give my a lift in. When I got in his old Jeep, my knees knocked against the glove compartment, and it dropped open, leaving me with a heavy-duty pistol in my lap. One of those showy Desert Eagle type things. I made a half-joking comment about being surprised he was so blase about leaving firearms kicking about where anybody could grab them, and he just shrugged it off. I made a comment along the lines of, "seriously, I could have just shot you with that thing", and his answer was that I'd better make the first shot count as he'd be killing me with the second one. Deadly serious.

There are a decent number of people over there with a rigidly myopic mindset that the rest of the world might try to take something from them at any moment, so they need to be prepared to kill. Nobody's ever going to cure that.

3 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Shooting from the hip a bit here but im sure i saw/read something to the effect there's a horrible modern slavery aspect to American prison labour too, with the Shawshank Redemption "here's a delightful pie stuffed with cash" scene not a million miles off what still goes on. 

The Shawshank Redemption scenario was corruption; the crime that brought the governor down was taking kickbacks to not use prison labour for certain jobs. If he'd taken the work on instead of feathering his own nest, he'd have been fine.

The statistics for work in the American economy performed by prison inmates is easy enough to find; they aren't ashamed of it. Inmates are paid cents per hour for the work they perform, with the excuse that they should have to contribute to the cost of keeping themselves incarcerated, which is tendered out to very profitable private companies. They struggle to find enough inmates to keep up with the contracts, so the justice system incarcerates more and more of the general population.

When people complain about "soft" prison sentences in the UK and compare it to America, they aren't understanding that punishment, rehabilitation, and the safety of the public are secondary considerations. They need more workers, plain and simple. They're locking up around 1% of the population at the moment. Think about that for a minute; at any given time, one out of every hundred Americans are in jail. And most of them are black, despite being an overwhelming minority of the general populace.

You can either choose to believe that the country is institutionally racist, and has redeveloped the slave trade for modern times, or you have to be a believer in eugenics.

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I hope to live long enough for American power to wane to the point Mexico invades and all these oathkeeper guys with their camo printed AR15s get their shit pushed in in the first fight with real soldiers.

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3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I hope to live long enough for American power to wane to the point Mexico invades and all these oathkeeper guys with their camo printed AR15s get their shit pushed in in the first fight with real soldiers.

I know Mexico has it's own problems, but I'd quite happily take on any of their emigrants that American doesn't want. Especially if they opened restaurants. Great bunch of lads.

I'd imagine any humanitarians from the slums of Mexico City arriving in the east end of Glasgow might start raising outreach funds from the folks back home, so win-win.

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1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Maybe we hold ‘Western democracies’ to a higher standard.  Is that wrong?

Liar. The only time you take a blind bit of notice over human rights is as a purely expedient stick to beat your political enemies: the western democracies. 

Just one of dozens of examples: 300 000 dead and 3 million displaced in Syria. Almost weekly cities are hit by massive, indiscriminate bombing. Your allies (and friends) such as Putin, Erdogan and Hezb'allah. Not  a peep from you, other than maybe a smirk, the good guys winning I guess. 

You are as shameless in your dishonesty as Trump himself. 

All those sharing social media update on "black lives matter" see how many posts they have on the black lives being lost to Boko Haram in West Africa, in the South Sudan civil war or the utter horror show that is the DRC. 

The nakedness of the expediency in which people pick and choose when they will whip themselves into a smug, outrage lather is ..... well its not even disappointing any more. Its the most normal thing on the internet. 

Now back to regular programming: Last night a video was posted of a black officer laying out a black woman with a blind sided punch. About a day ago there was a horrific video of a white officer gunning down a white lad who had had a drinking session interrupted and was drunk and terrified out of his mind so made a tiny mistake. Racism is a major problem in America, but the lack of training and failure to hold police to reasonable standard of modern policing is making it massively worse and also hiding the issue under the general gung ho thuggish nature of US policing. People can condemn both the appalling standards of policing and the scale of racism still evident in US society. 

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Between this and the geopolitics thread that wasn't I think someone's application to the RUSI got dingied.

Edited by MixuFruit

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45 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

This is why the white supremacist right, who really do operate as one community, are so scary as they're combining the sense of being left behind and shit on by society with being the people who can actually end up in government, kneeling on people's necks etc.  

That sentence, on its own, looks very much like a ScotNut charter.  Combine that with the way the Natters demonise any opposition and you can see there's barely the gable end of a Rizla between Nationalist/Supremacist groups the world over.

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