George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[hk blues]

18 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

 

Offensive? As any other stereotype, some might take offence, but most would just see it as more just lazy comedy shorthand.

I must say, though, having spent over two decades locking up criminals in Englandshire, being referred to as Mr McKay got old pretty damn quick. Not offensive, just boring.

I suspect that even today ripping the piss out of the Scottish accent is still considered OK but would anyone do the same these days with an Indian accent for example - I doubt it.  Our definition of racism tends to be a little narrow.  

[throbber]

10 hours ago, Shandon Par said:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
 

Their mission statement is hardly scary or something to be wary of. Pretty dignified considering what black people have had to put up with. 
 

 

 

They want a different method of reform as what has happened before hasn’t worked.  Some of their more extreme following want an end to capitalism but it isn’t their common goal, plus lots of activists who are left wing want a complete overhaul in society its not just a BLM/Antifa thing.  The history/culture part that Farage is attacking is all down to the attacks on statues as well which also hasn't been a specifically BLM thing. The Edward Colson statue was ripped down by people in Bristol who were sick of it for many years yet nothing was done about it until they decided to rip it down themselves, but Farage is still able to twist this round to all be about black people attacking British traditions and wanting to come after us all and enforce their views upon us. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

none of my relatives living in England have been beaten up told to go back home, had windows or cars damaged or had BNP or other such things graffitied onto their homes or places of business , I'm sure it happens from time to time but not on a large scale. 

47 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I suspect that even today ripping the piss out of the Scottish accent is still considered OK but would anyone do the same these days with an Indian accent for example - I doubt it.  Our definition of racism tends to be a little narrow.  

 

[hk blues]

2 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

none of my relatives living in England have been beaten up told to go back home, had windows or cars damaged or had BNP or other such things graffitied onto their homes or places of business , I'm sure it happens from time to time but not on a large scale. 

 

I'm not sure what your point is, or at least its relevance to my post.

[Dee Man]

Regarding the chat earlier about Chinese "not minding being called chinkies", I remember years ago working in London and some loudmouthed cockney p***k shouted "Oi, Jock" at me when he wanted my attention and it pissed me off far more than it probably should have and he got told as much so I don't imagine most people who constantly get referred to by where they're from particularly enjoy it. 

[Shandon Par]

9 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I'm not sure what your point is, or at least its relevance to my post.

It’s to do with power. Being Scottish and white is a decent start in life. Russ about saying “see you Jimmy” may be grating but there’s not much beyond that. Calling someone the p word, for example, carries so much more baggage, hurt and hatred. 

[Shandon Par]

4 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

Regarding the chat earlier about Chinese "not minding being called chinkies", I remember years ago working in London and some loudmouthed cockney p***k shouted "Oi, Jock" at me when he wanted my attention and it pissed me off far more than it probably should have and he got told as much so I don't imagine most people who constantly get referred to by where they're from particularly enjoy it. 

I got bullied living in England for having a Scottish name after moving schools aged about six. Left me so miserable after school. Just that little mild taste of it for a few months was horrible. 
 

 

[hk blues]

18 minutes ago, Shandon Par said:

It’s to do with power. Being Scottish and white is a decent start in life. Russ about saying “see you Jimmy” may be grating but there’s not much beyond that. Calling someone the p word, for example, carries so much more baggage, hurt and hatred. 

Yep, I get that but my post was merely noting that the definition of racism tends to be narrow - I used the example of Scottish and Indian accents as just that - examples.  

[jimbaxters]

22 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

Regarding the chat earlier about Chinese "not minding being called chinkies", I remember years ago working in London and some loudmouthed cockney p***k shouted "Oi, Jock" at me when he wanted my attention and it pissed me off far more than it probably should have and he got told as much so I don't imagine most people who constantly get referred to by where they're from particularly enjoy it. 

I have had "sweaty" aimed at me many times on training courses in England. Usually by South East "cockney" lads. Didn't bother me unduly as it was only for a few days on the course but I can see it would be annoying long term.

[D.A.F.C]

Are you suggesting they become peaceful activists like Colin Kaepernick? That turned out well for him. The reason people are getting violent now is from frustration because nothing else has ever worked. And once again, no sane person is advocating removing the police entirely.

Causing riots and violence wont solve anything. I understand why they're fed up and resort to it but all they're doing is dividing a nation even further.
Yes the right wing and trump are doing the same and look what that's caused.
Not saying it was perfect under Obama but the country was less divided.
The end result of this will be more riots, more violence and more deaths than there would have been without.
The underlying issue is poverty and lack of equality for certain groups as well as the police and far right nutters.
Its not an easy thing to fix and wont happen overnight especially when they're being violent. It just plays into the opponents hands.

I dont have the answers because I dont live in america and haven't experienced racism or massive inequality and that's why I wouldn't just pigeon hole an entire problem into a quick fix. White people need to make the big changes in america but not by protesting over things they don't understand and will never experience.
Instead of that why not fund projects for education or do charity work?
Nah, that's actually difficult and not just virtue signaling.

[hk blues]

22 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

Regarding the chat earlier about Chinese "not minding being called chinkies", I remember years ago working in London and some loudmouthed cockney p***k shouted "Oi, Jock" at me when he wanted my attention and it pissed me off far more than it probably should have and he got told as much so I don't imagine most people who constantly get referred to by where they're from particularly enjoy it. 

I've lived outside Scotland for a good 25 years now and have experienced what would be described as passive racism throughout that time.  Rarely, if ever, did it annoy me much at all unless it was intended to do so.  Here in the Philippines, foreigners experience racism every day but most of it would be considered passive/soft as compared to that I saw in the UK and in Hong Kong.  

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

Causing riots and violence wont solve anything. I understand why they're fed up and resort to it but all they're doing is dividing a nation even further.
Yes the right wing and trump are doing the same and look what that's caused.
Not saying it was perfect under Obama but the country was less divided.
The end result of this will be more riots, more violence and more deaths than there would have been without.
The underlying issue is poverty and lack of equality for certain groups as well as the police and far right nutters.
Its not an easy thing to fix and wont happen overnight especially when they're being violent. It just plays into the opponents hands.

I dont have the answers because I dont live in america and haven't experienced racism or massive inequality and that's why I wouldn't just pigeon hole an entire problem into a quick fix. White people need to make the big changes in america but not by protesting over things they don't understand and will never experience.
Instead of that why not fund projects for education or do charity work?
Nah, that's actually difficult and not just virtue signaling.

Actually there's a pretty long list of actions taken to defund and reform police departments in the aftermath of these protests. It has also increased the awareness and support for the movement exponentially, and if it upsets the right people along the way I don't see the problem. There's certain people who won't be talked round regardless. 

Also lol, a lot of people already fund projects for education and volunteer.

So not exactly just virtue signalling eh? You seem to be approaching this from the start point of Direct Action and Protests are bad, and you're not paying attention when people tell you that 1- they're actually working pretty well and 2 - all your bright ideas have already been tried

Edited July 9, 2020 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[Bairnardo]

Theres no one debating how difficult an issue deep rooted racism is to solve.

One solution that can be categorically proven NOT to work though, is "cant we all just get along"

[Mr Waldo]

4 hours ago, throbber said:

Some of their more extreme following want an end to capitalism but it isn’t their common goal

I wish you were right but

• it's on page 2 of BLM UKs   statement -  'We're guided by a commitment to dismantle ......capitalism'  https://mobile.twitter.com/ukblm
• BLM in the USA was founded by 'trained marxists'.  
• The Movement 4 Black Lives have it in their final paragraph.

The proof  is there.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Mr Waldo
Try to fix a link

[effeffsee_the2nd]

2 hours ago, hk blues said:

I've lived outside Scotland for a good 25 years now and have experienced what would be described as passive racism throughout that time.  Rarely, if ever, did it annoy me much at all unless it was intended to do so.  Here in the Philippines, foreigners experience racism every day but most of it would be considered passive/soft as compared to that I saw in the UK and in Hong Kong.  

Can't comment on Hong Kong and I've only visited the Philippines but lets not go down the road of  " if you go to a majority black or brown country then you will be the minority who gets abused " it may be true in some localized cases but it's mostly shite.  In the vast majority of post colonial nations in Africa Asia and the Caribbean,  a white person will sometimes  be assumed to be A wealthy and B somewhat important and will often receive more favorable treatment than a local.  Most white people have no idea how many benefits their complexion brings them and can't understand why non whites find it irritating

Also while were here lets not bother with pish like " chinky or paki is just the same as jock ausie paddy tafffy yank etc etc"  it's fucking not and fine you know it.  the later exampls are rarely preceded by "f**k off back where you came from you aussie c**t"  people with the later names aren't made to feel unwelcome in the country they were born in, or see numerous newspaper headlines demonizing their religion or way of life,

finally for those of the " it's all gone too far" or " too far the in the other direction now " what you may aswell be saying is " I don't mind black people so long as they stay in their place and don't get ideas above their station" a lot of what I would call "moderate racists" if there is such a thing are now outing themselves in the wake of the recent BLM events,  What I mean is people who are not raging bigots who hate anything different but those who don't mind cuddly minorities with their nice food and cool music so long as they continue to act like guests in a white world , who need to be on their best behavior at all times and not assert themselves or they wont be welcome anymore,  you know the kind of people i'm talking about. you might even have been one for years and never knew it 

Edited July 9, 2020 by effeffsee_the2nd

[hk blues]

17 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Can't comment on Hong Kong and I've only visited the Philippines but lets not go down the road of  " if you go to a majority black or brown country then you will be the minority who gets abused " it may be true in some localized cases but it's mostly shite.  In the vast majority of post colonial nations in Africa Asia and the Caribbean,  a white person will sometimes  be assumed to be A wealthy and B somewhat important and will often receive more favorable treatment than a local.  Most white people have no idea how many benefits their complexion brings them and can't understand why non whites find it irritating

Also while were here lets not bother with pish like " chinky or paki is just the same as jock ausie paddy tafffy yank etc etc"  it's fucking not and fine you know it.  the later exampls are rarely preceded by "f**k off back where you came from you aussie c**t"  people with the later names aren't made to feel unwelcome in the country they were born in, or see numerous newspaper headlines demonizing their religion or way of life,

finally for those of the " it's all gone too far" or " too far the in the other direction now " what you may aswell be saying is " I don't mind black people so long as they stay in their place and don't get ideas above their station" a lot of what I would call "moderate racists" if there is such a thing are now outing themselves in the wake of the recent BLM events,  What I mean is people who are not raging bigots who hate anything different but those who don't mind cuddly minorities with their nice food and cool music so long as they continue to act like guests in a white world , who need to be on their best behavior at all times and not assert themselves or they wont be welcome anymore,  you know the kind of people i'm talking about. you might even have been one for years and never knew it 

Where to begin with all that?  You have made some huge assumptions which are completely wrong - nothing in my 2 posts suggest anything like you are trying to.   

Calm yourself down.

[D.A.F.C]

[Turkmenbashi]

47 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said:

I wish you were right but

• it's on page 2 of BLM UKs   statement -  'We're guided by a commitment to dismantle ......capitalism'
• BLM in the USA was founded by 'trained marxists'.  
• The Movement 4 Black Lives have it in their final paragraph.

The proof  is there.

No it isn't 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Turkmenbashi

[WhiteRoseKillie]

3 hours ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

none of my relatives living in England have been beaten up told to go back home, had windows or cars damaged or had BNP or other such things graffitied onto their homes or places of business , I'm sure it happens from time to time but not on a large scale. 

 

I'm sure I posted before that I experienced more violent discrimination in Scotland, due to a perceived "big team" bias, based on - guess what - the school I attended. The casual stereotyping I've been on the end of down here doesn't bother me - it's their problem, not mine, etc.

Friction definitely does exist down here, though - whoever was the poster that was posting from Burnley in the GE run-up had that right. At the turn of the millenium, we had riots in Bradford, the effects of which still make themselves felt in general tension, and I believe similar went on in the traditional mill towns of Lancashire. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "a large scale", but Bradford apparently cost 7 Million in damages, and saw 200 jail sentences handed down - some of the perpetrators ending up in the HSE.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

22 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm genuinely worried now. Watching and posting multiple videos by some outrider of the Intellectual Dark Web about how structural racism isn't real is pretty much the clearest indicator that someone is being radicalised by the right. Not trolling, you are down the rabbit hole.