George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[effeffsee_the2nd]

8 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Absolutely. Particularly with homophobia and LGBTQ issues, I think society's changed pretty drastically over the past 20/25 years. Casual racism and homophobia was far more acceptable in the 90s than it is now. And that absolutely shouldn't be used as an excuse not to continue that progress.

Exactly, I rember it being perfectly acceptable to use terms such as ch.… / pa../ da.. poof tranny dyke .  at the football "poof" was often hurled at a player suspected of diving.

I never understood the need to get rattled upon learning that you can't use those words anymore.  I believe those who do are pretty unhappy or insecure in there own selves but were clinging onto the derogatory treatment of minorities to sooth themselves  ie I may be xy&z but at least i'm not a ….

[Mr Waldo]

6 minutes ago, Gerald Elbowdent said:

 

Calls what?

 

The right-wing gammon bingo?

No, he is looking for an 'inclusive and politically-neutral anti-racism movement'.

Matt Le Tissier is now 'reviewing wearing a BLM badge'.   Looks like BLM wanting to close prisons, abolish the police and scrap capitalism is losing them support.

[Bairnardo]

No, he is looking for an 'inclusive and politically-neutral anti-racism movement'.
Matt Le Tissier is now 'reviewing wearing a BLM badge'.   Looks like BLM wanting to close prisons, abolish the police and scrap capitalism is losing them support.

Wait? Matt Le Tiss is reviewing it?

Well f**k me I didnt realise the true intellectual heavyweights were starting to cast doubt. This changes everything

[pandarilla]

Absolutely. Particularly with homophobia and LGBTQ issues, I think society's changed pretty drastically over the past 20/25 years. Casual racism and homophobia was far more acceptable in the 90s than it is now. And that absolutely shouldn't be used as an excuse not to continue that progress.

I've felt that those on the centre - right have taken advantage of this.

They've pushed the social agenda of the left big time, and by in large that's a good thing. But it also gives them cover for not addressing, or even discussing, the economic situation.

It's like they've given us this so let's just ask accept the neoliberal system that's dominated since the early 80s. The idea that profit drives everything, and entrepreneurs and private enterprise can solve all of society's ills.

Too many young folk on the left have spent all their energy fighting the social causes, rather than genuinely questioning where the power and wealth is in our society.

[Gordon EF]

7 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I've felt that those on the centre - right have taken advantage of this.

They've pushed the social agenda of the left big time, and by in large that's a good thing. But it also gives them cover for not addressing, or even discussing, the economic situation.

It's like they've given us this so let's just ask accept the neoliberal system that's dominated since the early 80s. The idea that profit drives everything, and entrepreneurs and private enterprise can solve all of society's ills.

Too many young folk on the left have spent all their energy fighting the social causes, rather than genuinely questioning where the power and wealth is in our society.

Yep. That's a major bug-bear of mine. It's a given that equality and social justice should always be important to the left but it does feel like so much energy is given to that at the expense of the traditional economic equality side of things.

The race issue is a good example of that. Of course racism is a factor in racial inequality but the main practical reason minorities see worse outcomes than white people generally, across society is that in the UK and US, minorities have disproportionately higher levels of poverty. Closing the gap between rich and poor generally would significantly disproportionately benefit ethnic minorities. 

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

...and yet we must bow before the intellectual might of the Sage of Inverclyde? Fúck off, champ.

If you don't want to continue making a fool of yourself, sure. Or you could just do what I actually suggested and start reading about why your hot take about how the world paid back Jews for the Holocaust so they should stop playing 'the victim card' is in fact one of the most risible pieces of nonsense to have ever been written on this forum. It's your call but your continued, foot-stomping reluctance to do the latter on such a serious topic marks you out as a thoroughly nasty piece of work in my book.

Edited June 30, 2020 by vikingTON

[hearthammer]

And so it begins :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8475351/Pub-named-slave-trader-Edward-Colston-renamed-Ye-Olde-Pubby-Mcdrunkface.html

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, hearthammer said:

And so it begins :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8475351/Pub-named-slave-trader-Edward-Colston-renamed-Ye-Olde-Pubby-Mcdrunkface.html

Pubby McDrunkface. The English just have the worst fucking patter in the universe. Toe curling, stomach churningly bad.

[Bairnardo]

Pubby McDrunkface. The English just have the worst fucking patter in the universe. Toe curling, stomach churningly bad.

Yeah. Thats up there with people who still say "simples"

[WhiteRoseKillie]

If you don't want to continue making a fool of yourself, sure. Or you could just do what I actually suggested and start reading about why your hot take about how the world paid back Jews for the Holocaust so they should stop playing 'the victim card' is in fact one of the most risible pieces of nonsense to have ever been written on this forum. It's your call but your continued, foot-stomping reluctance to do the latter on such a serious topic marks you out as a thoroughly nasty piece of work in my book.

So your book - was it written by this Snyder chap?

[Mr Waldo]

4 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Wait? Matt Le Tiss is reviewing it?

Well f**k me I didnt realise the true intellectual heavyweights were starting to cast doubt. This changes everything

I was just pointing out a Sky football pundit is questioning the blanket 'show support' for BLM a few hours after an ex footballer done the same. I remember the outcry when a footballer opted out of the blanket 'wear a poppy'.

4 hours ago, Gerald Elbowdent said:

 

No, he's a Tory right-wing gammon propagating made up nonsense to try smear the movement.

 

Much like yourself, evidently.

I wouldn't call quoting BLM  'smearing'.  Although  BLM changed their page yesterday after the Labour leader was on TV about 'defunding the police'

[Cosmic Joe]

34 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

3 hours ago, virginton said:

If you don't want to continue making a fool of yourself, sure. Or you could just do what I actually suggested and start reading about why your hot take about how the world paid back Jews for the Holocaust so they should stop playing 'the victim card' is in fact one of the most risible pieces of nonsense to have ever been written on this forum. It's your call but your continued, foot-stomping reluctance to do the latter on such a serious topic marks you out as a thoroughly nasty piece of work in my book.

So your book - was it written by this Snyder chap?

Perhaps if he changed his tone, posters might be encouraged to engage in a discussion with him. I doubt very much that will happen. He is probably a sad individual. I feel sorry for him as he clearly has very little going on in his life other than attempting to noise up fellow football fans on a forum. 

I admire your fortitude WRK, but he is almost certainly best ignored. 

[Bairnardo]

53 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said:

I was just pointing out a Sky football pundit is questioning the blanket 'show support' for BLM a few hours after an ex footballer done the same. I remember the outcry when a footballer opted out of the blanket 'wear a poppy'.

I know what you were pointing out. In doing so, you were giving it at least some credence in the argument, whereas I would contend that whilst Sky employ people who spit on wee lassies, people who shout down ex players for saying there is a societal problem with racism and Charlie Nicolas, another of their idiot pundits undertaking a "review" of BLM really isnt worth the seconds it takes to mention it. 

[Mr Waldo]

1 hour ago, Gerald Elbowdent said:

Where's the quotes on "wanting to close prisons... and scrap capitalis"?

 

They don't happen to be complete nonsense smearjobs made up by gammons like yourself, do they?

Be careful what you say on the web

BLM UK removed any mention of 'capitalism' from their site at the same time as 'defund the police' but when I search for 'black lives matter capitalism' it remains in the description -

"Black Lives Matter UK (BLMUK) is a coalition of black activists and organisers across the UK. We've been organising since 2016 for justice in our communities. We're guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around..."

I don't really know what 'We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement' means, so I'd vote against that until I got clarity. I don't accept the 'we say that but what we mean is....' argument. In the public domain, you say what you mean.

I am anything but a 'gammon'. I try to look behind any shouty statement politics in the same way as

• "£350 million for the NHS".          Wow, who can possibly vote against that!    Me.
• "Make America Great Again".      My! Where do I sign up!    Not me.

 And just for clarification, I think  'Kick It Out' and 'Show Racism the Red Card' are brilliant.   Please don't assume all (perceived) criticism is the work of 'the enemy'.  Sometimes it is not.

[Mr Waldo]

 

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

I know what you were pointing out. In doing so, you were giving it at least some credence in the argument, whereas I would contend that whilst Sky employ people who spit on wee lassies, people who shout down ex players for saying there is a societal problem with racism and Charlie Nicolas, another of their idiot pundits undertaking a "review" of BLM really isnt worth the seconds it takes to mention it. 

It's just the first I've heard of 'football' speaking against BLM, but to be honest, you are being unfair.   By using the 'Charlie Nicholas' defence, I have no rebuttal.

[NotThePars]

18 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Karl Henry calls it

 

 

15 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Has anyone ventured into Parler?

I see it’s listed 21st on the App Store.

Womp Womp

7 hours ago, pandarilla said:

I've felt that those on the centre - right have taken advantage of this.

They've pushed the social agenda of the left big time, and by in large that's a good thing. But it also gives them cover for not addressing, or even discussing, the economic situation.

It's like they've given us this so let's just ask accept the neoliberal system that's dominated since the early 80s. The idea that profit drives everything, and entrepreneurs and private enterprise can solve all of society's ills.

Too many young folk on the left have spent all their energy fighting the social causes, rather than genuinely questioning where the power and wealth is in our society.

 

7 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Yep. That's a major bug-bear of mine. It's a given that equality and social justice should always be important to the left but it does feel like so much energy is given to that at the expense of the traditional economic equality side of things.

The race issue is a good example of that. Of course racism is a factor in racial inequality but the main practical reason minorities see worse outcomes than white people generally, across society is that in the UK and US, minorities have disproportionately higher levels of poverty. Closing the gap between rich and poor generally would significantly disproportionately benefit ethnic minorities. 

I sorta agree with this but also don't blame people for giving up on ever shifting the economic argument left after we witnessed the enormous gaslighting campaign coordinated against Labour because they dared to propose a programme that promised mild economic redistribution

[Gordon EF]

45 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I sorta agree with this but also don't blame people for giving up on ever shifting the economic argument left after we witnessed the enormous gaslighting campaign coordinated against Labour because they dared to propose a programme that promised mild economic redistribution

Yeah. That stuff's a bit vicious cycle for me. There's no doubt the 'gammon centre right' has been more effective in convincing the electorate on the economic side of things for decades really. To what degree that's the ineffectiveness of the left or the unwillingness of the electorate to vote in their own interest, I'm not sure.

[NotThePars]

49 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Yeah. That stuff's a bit vicious cycle for me. There's no doubt the 'gammon centre right' has been more effective in convincing the electorate on the economic side of things for decades really. To what degree that's the ineffectiveness of the left or the unwillingness of the electorate to vote in their own interest, I'm not sure.

More convincing aye but also just a case of the economic levers being taken out of the democratic sphere. 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Why is it that traditional Labour and liberal stronghold constituencies are full of the staunch racists and xenophobes?

[Dons_1988]

12 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

I know what you were pointing out. In doing so, you were giving it at least some credence in the argument, whereas I would contend that whilst Sky employ people who spit on wee lassies, people who shout down ex players for saying there is a societal problem with racism and Charlie Nicolas, another of their idiot pundits undertaking a "review" of BLM really isnt worth the seconds it takes to mention it. 

Yes, all it proves is that a lot of celebrity endorsements of just about anything are entirely vacuous nonsense.

You can just imagine the headache it gave 'Le Tiss' when he was told BLM isn't just a nice phrase.