George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

But they are disproportionally committing crimes. This is a stone cold fact.

Again, third time lucky, why are you bringing up this fact?

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I never played the man at all. Please point to where I did. I referred to a hypothetical scenario, I detailed that scenario, and you said it doesn't apply to you.

So stop crying, pull up your big boy pants, and answer the question.

What was the point you were trying to make when you brought up these statistics?

i do apologise. I confused you with Day of the Lords.

Profuse apologies etc etc.

Still. I think my point was quite clear. The facts are the facts regardless of who brings them up.

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Again, third time lucky, why are you bringing up this fact?

Because the poster I responded to quoted the figures out of context. Out of context figures are useless and shouldn't pass unchallenged.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Christ this is like getting blood out of a stone.

39 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I made this point a couple of nights ago. It's all freely available information and public record.

You said you posted "this point". There is no "point" in statistics. They are merely statistics. A couple of nights ago, whenever you posted, what was the point you were trying to make? You refer to Dee Man's "point". Dee Man is not making any point in his post. He is just posting statistics.

I am not referring to you quoting Dee Man and yer wee pity party about being called a racist.

ETA: I think we've had some crossed paths on this btw.

Edited June 25, 2020 by AsimButtHitsASix

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Christ this is like getting blood out of a stone.

You said you posted "this point". There is no "point" in statistics. They are merely statistics. A couple of nights ago, whenever you posted, what was the point you were trying to make? You refer to Dee Man's "point". Dee Man is not making any point in his post. He is just posting statistics.

I am not referring to you quoting Dee Man and yer wee pity party about being called a racist.

That's a very confusing post.

Are you saying that crime statistics (the facts of the matter) are not relevant when discussing the police's response to a population?

If so, I just disagree.

If you think crime statistics don't influence this discussion, then I'm not sure what you think does.

[welshbairn]

38 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I made this point a couple of nights ago. It's all freely available information and public record.

You can (based on my experience) now expect to be called a racist apologist.

50% of crime in America is committed by black people? Links please. 

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

50% of crime in America is committed by black people? Links please. 

I've never claimed that.

About 52% of murders are though. I think the over-representation of black people in violent crime (35% of gang members being back for example) may contribute to how the police deal with them.

I don't think that's a particularly controversial point. Unless you seriously want to argue from a position that murder figures are irrelevant. If you do, then go ahead.

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I've never claimed that.

God this is boring, you do this every time, say something false, can't back it up, then pretend you didn't say it.

1 hour ago, Dee Man said:

He stated that although only 12% of the population is African American, they are responsible for around 50% of the crime. 

No idea who the guy is or what his credentials are but that's his view on it. He's also not a massive fan of Black Lives Matter for some reason. 

 

 

1 hour ago, JTS98 said:

I made this point a couple of nights ago. It's all freely available information and public record.

You can (based on my experience) now expect to be called a racist apologist.

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by welshbairn

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Man dismisses institutional racism as reason so many black people are in prison then explains it is because of institutional racism?

That's a reasonable case to make. It depends where you see the racism.

Of course black people are punished by historical (and modern) institutional racism. But that doesn't mean that the racism we need to talk about is that of the frontline police. It's two different points. The original problem needs to be solved before the secondary one can be.

[Guest JTS98]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

God this is boring, you do this every time, say something false, can't back it up, then pretend you didn't say it. I'd like to see your evidence that 52% of murders are committed by black people though.

 

 

I'd direct you to your nearest search engine.

But perhaps as a starting point look at Homicide Trends in the United States 1980 - 2008, then perhaps Cooper (2012). Or perhaps Fox and Zawitz.

 

[Newbornbairn]

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

God this is boring, you do this every time, say something false, can't back it up, then pretend you didn't say it. I'd like to see your evidence that 52% of murders are committed by black people though.

 

 

The claim was fact checked by Ch 4

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

[madwullie]

22 minutes ago, Angusfifer said:

I think the most depressing thing about this whole episode has been the hardening of the position of the far right agitators and their not so clever sympathisers. The outcome most of us want is for people to be more open minded and consider the situation from the position of those of a different ethnicity to ourselves. 

I'm not entirely sure that we are heading in that direction

Everything has to be polarised now, partisan. Either snp bad /rabid snp fanboys, or how you voted in an EU referendum a few years ago. 

You'd hope that a fucking deadly virus that kills everyone equally or actual murder of people for the colour of their skin would allow c***s to find some kind of common ground, but no, obviously not. 

Both those referendums, if they themselves have not completely fucked the country(ies) politically, they've gone a long way to opening up wounds that I really can't see ever being fully healed. I imagine social media hasn't really helped either.

Even on here there is a need to be on the winning side of the argument with everything you say, and people can basically write as much as they like. Unsurprising on twitter with such a small character limit, positions are reduced to the simplest, most partisan level they can be. 

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

The claim was fact checked by Ch 4

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

There's a bit of nuance in there, but the imbalance is more than I expected.

[Mr Waldo]

15 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Everything has to be polarised now, partisan. Either snp bad /rabid snp fanboys, or how you voted in an EU referendum a few years ago. 

You'd hope that a fucking deadly virus that kills everyone equally or actual murder of people for the colour of their skin would allow c***s to find some kind of common ground, but no, obviously not. 

Both those referendums, if they themselves have not completely fucked the country(ies) politically, they've gone a long way to opening up wounds that I really can't see ever being fully healed. I imagine social media hasn't really helped either.

Even on here there is a need to be on the winning side of the argument with everything you say, and people can basically write as much as they like. Unsurprising on twitter with such a small character limit, positions are reduced to the simplest, most partisan level they can be. 

Away ye go with your sense and logic.   You should know you cannot have a sensible political or race conversation without a tsunami of 'facist'  /  'commie' abuse if you don't agree totally with the mob.

[welshbairn]

29 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I'd direct you to your nearest search engine.

But perhaps as a starting point look at Homicide Trends in the United States 1980 - 2008, then perhaps Cooper (2012). Or perhaps Fox and Zawitz.

 

Done a bit of googling and I am just going outside and may be some time.

[Mr Waldo]

Actual 2013 figures for homicide.

[NotThePars]

40 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

 

Of course black people are punished by historical (and modern) institutional racism. But that doesn't mean that the racism we need to talk about is that of the frontline police. It's two different points. 

Wait, what? The police are a state institution lol.

[Jacksgranda]

13 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said:

Away ye go with your sense and logic.   You should know you cannot have a sensible political or race conversation without a tsunami of 'facist'  /  'commie' abuse if you don't agree totally with the mob.

Is that worse than fascist abuse?

[Gordon EF]

Does anybody seriously think that the high numbers of black men killed by US police isn't down to both direct racism from police officers and the historical legacy of institutional racism in the US?

And there are absolutely police reforms that could work to bring down the number of police killings. A whole set of reforms were proposed under Obama and then reversed by Trump. They would have been a pretty good start. if anything the "police problem" seems far easier to fix.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Gordon EF

[aaa]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

There's a bit of nuance in there, but the imbalance is more than I expected.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43