George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Sinner-to-Saint]

1 minute ago, Dunning1874 said:

I take the point that the far right want a culture war and people want to avoid playing into their hands, but if the response to this is deciding never to challenge racist behaviour in case it provokes a culture war then racists will know they can be racist with impunity and they've already won.

So someone from Burnley who wants to juxtapose the reaction of the grooming of white girls, who have had their lives traumatised in that very town, with the reaction to the death of a black man killed in a foreign country 3,000 miles away, is a racist? Really?

Also are you suggesting the culprit should be prosecuted?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

6 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

I take the point that the far right want a culture war and people want to avoid playing into their hands, but if the response to this is deciding never to challenge racist behaviour in case it provokes a culture war then racists will know they can be racist with impunity and they've already won.

The culture war is already there to a greater extent. That's part of the reason why we have Brexit and the Tories have a stonking majority. 

The UK is more right-wing in its politics than it has probably every been. 

[Dunning1874]

20 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

Absolutely genuine question, have you seen the statistics regarding the race of unarmed people killed in the US? Nobody should believe the media, but investigate the facts for themselves. 

What about black on black crime though? type post.

11 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

So someone from Burnley who wants to juxtapose the reaction of the grooming of white girls, who have had their lives traumatised in that very town, with the reaction to the death of a black man killed in a foreign country 3,000 miles away, is a racist? Really?

Also are you suggesting the culprit should be prosecuted?

You've just plucked this "it's about grooming gangs, actually" logic out of your imagination with no evidence.

Meanwhile, anyone who responds to someone saying "black lives matter" in response to institutional racism by saying "white lives matter" or "what about white lives" is either a racist who knows fine well what they're doing, or thick as pigshit in failing to comprehend that saying "black lives matter" isn't a statement which says black lives matter more than other lives but should be valued equally. Talking about white lives in response to that is only ever an attempt to divert attention from the issue at hand.

No, I don't think they should be prosecuted in this case, but Burnley would entirely correct to ban them.

[Sinner-to-Saint]

3 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

The culture war is already there to a greater extent. That's part of the reason why we have Brexit and the Tories have a stonking majority. 

The UK is more right-wing in its politics than it has probably every been. 

If promoting the message 'Black Lives Matter' results in the police literally taking a knee, whilst promoting the message 'White Lives Matter' results in arrest, then we have a problem and I'm not sure people are willing to accept that. 

It's exactly the same message applied to different races.

This is what I have found regarding the stats on unarmed people being shot dead by police in the US:

 

[The Moonster]

12 hours ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

I have many 'left wing' views - I believe in the regulation of the economy, and a decent welfare state and free health care. But I'm also a 'fascist' as I think mass-immigration has been bad and I believe in people's unfettered right to articulate their political views (free speech).

When someone says they believe in free speech you can bet for sure they're about to say something that's either racist, bigoted or xenophobic.

11 hours ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

I live and work in Glasgow and have watched the demographics change very quickly, and unabated it's pretty obvious it will continue to change over the next decade or two, as will Glasgow's character and identity, IMHO. I'm all for a certain amount of diversity, but I genuinely do not feel that mass-immigration benefits me or the city as a whole. That's a debate for another time and place, though.

Yip.

22 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

Absolutely genuine question, have you seen the statistics regarding the race of unarmed people killed in the US? Nobody should believe the media, but investigate the facts for themselves. 

As for the banner - I believe that Burnley, along with Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford and many other towns had a problem with gangs of mostly Asian men grooming underage, primarily white, girls. The quote the BBC: Jack Straw Former Home Secretary Jack Straw has been accused of "stereotyping" after suggesting some men of Pakistani origin see white girls as "easy meat". In many instances this was covered up for many years, in order to avoid controversy, with the police and social workers being told to turn a blind eye. I believe a case can be made to say these girls' lives will have been traumatised by being raped multiple times by men, especially as some of them were as young as twelve. 

I don't recall hysterical protests at the time or since, despite the fact that the councils and police failed to act, despite being aware of these things. I don't know the motivation for flying the Burnley banner, but perhaps it was designed to draw attention to those grooming gangs?

Yip again.

[Old Pack]

The culture war is already there to a greater extent. That's part of the reason why we have Brexit and the Tories have a stonking majority. 
The UK is more right-wing in its politics than it has probably every been. 

The UK is more right -wing in its politics probably due to the fact that the Labour Party has been led by a bunch of Pro Marxist idiots for the last 10 years.

[Marshmallo]

If the choice is appeasing racists or a "culture war" between inclusiveness and ARE COUNTRY types, then bring it on baby.

Does anyone seriously think that was done last night for any reason other than to undermine the cause of racial equality?

Edited June 23, 2020 by Marshmallo

[Sinner-to-Saint]

1 minute ago, Dunning1874 said:

What about black on black crime though? type post.

You've just plucked this "it's about grooming gangs, actually" logic out of your imagination with no evidence.

Meanwhile, anyone who responds to someone saying "black lives matter" in response to institutional racism by saying "white lives matter" or "what about white lives" is either a racist who knows fine well what they're doing, or thick as pigshit in failing to comprehend that saying "black lives matter" isn't a statement which says black lives matter more than other lives but should be valued equally. Talking about white lives in response to that is only ever an attempt to divert attention from the issue at hand.

No, I don't think they should be prosecuted in this case, but Burnley would entirely correct to ban them.

'What about black on black crime though? type post.'

No, it's really not. It's about examining the statistics to verify the cause is genuine before tearing down statues and cheering on a cause that is potentially very divisive and antagonistic, rather than listen to media hysteria.

It surely isn't difficult to see how someone from Burnley, a town roughly about the same size as Paisley, might know of girls who have been groomed by gangs and think to themselves "where were all these hysterical protests when that was happening over here?" 

[Marshmallo]

Just now, Sinner-to-Saint said:

It surely isn't difficult to see how someone from Burnley, a town roughly about the same size as Paisley, might know of girls who have been groomed by gangs and think to themselves "where were all these hysterical protests when that was happening over here?" 

There is nothing to stop "someone from Burnley" starting protests against grooming gangs and sexual exploitation.

[Sinner-to-Saint]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

There is nothing to stop "someone from Burnley" starting protests against grooming gangs and sexual exploitation.

I actually think there were attempts made to stop protests about the grooming - mostly by left-wing groups and the police, mostly, is I recall. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Sinner-to-Saint

[Marshmallo]

2 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

I actually think there were attempts made to stop protests about the grooming - mostly by left-wing groups and the police, mostly, is I recall. 

I see. When were these and were the protests stopped by these "left-wing groups"?

The polis have shown that they just don't want any work and don't know how to react to people organising themselves so that doesn't surprise me.

[welshbairn]

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I'm not sure that 'the police also kill unarmed white people' is quite the zinger you think it is tbh.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

3 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

I actually think there were attempts made to stop protests about the grooming - mostly by left-wing groups and the police, mostly, is I recall. 

Wasn't able to find any evidence of that mate, probably made up bollocks. Are you thinking of Tommy Robinson being arrested for assault, again, in Barrow at the start of the month? 

You're really not doing yourself any favours by the way with this literal White Lives Matter bollocks. At least the All Lives Matter folk are just dim. What you're saying is, essentially, why should brown and black folk not be discriminated against when all these brown and black folk are out here grooming lassies? Do you think bame people are more likely to be paedophiles?

[Marshmallo]

19 minutes ago, Old Pack said:

 

The UK is more right -wing in its politics probably due to the fact that the Labour Party has been led by a bunch of Pro Marxist idiots for the last 10 years.

 

"I had no option but to become a white supremacist because Jeremy Corbyn wanted to give everyone tax payer funded broadband"

[Brother Blades]

If promoting the message 'Black Lives Matter' results in the police literally taking a knee, whilst promoting the message 'White Lives Matter' results in arrest, then we have a problem and I'm not sure people are willing to accept that. 
It's exactly the same message applied to different races.
This is what I have found regarding the stats on unarmed people being shot dead by police in the US:
 

Yeah great graphic!
Fails to recognise that there are 5 times more white people in the US than there are black.
60% vs 12%.
Hardly an even rate of attrition.

[The Moonster]

14 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

'What about black on black crime though? type post.'

No, it's really not. It's about examining the statistics to verify the cause is genuine before tearing down statues and cheering on a cause that is potentially very divisive and antagonistic, rather than listen to media hysteria.

It surely isn't difficult to see how someone from Burnley, a town roughly about the same size as Paisley, might know of girls who have been groomed by gangs and think to themselves "where were all these hysterical protests when that was happening over here?" 

You are the fucking problem mate. Just f**k off with this pish.

[ICTChris]

I don't know about protests but it's certain that actual investigations into grooming gang sexual offences were influenced by the worry that publicising the crimes would cause racial disharmony.  

Regarding that banner, I'm not sure you could prosecute anyone for it, what laws are being broken by it?  I'm sure Burnely will be banning the guy who arranged it though.  I'd also have to question the firm who flew it though, do they need the money that much?  

[Shandon Par]

24 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

If promoting the message 'Black Lives Matter' results in the police literally taking a knee, whilst promoting the message 'White Lives Matter' results in arrest, then we have a problem and I'm not sure people are willing to accept that. 

It's exactly the same message applied to different races.

This is what I have found regarding the stats on unarmed people being shot dead by police in the US:

 

With some very rough calculations, that shows police shoot 2x as many white people as black people. Yet the white population is roughly 4.5x that of the black population. You're about 2.5 or 3 x more likely to be shot by police if you're black. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Anyone making that comparison is an idiot, though.

The reading attacks were carried out by a guy on his own who decided he wanted to go and stab people.

The blm protests relate to overwhelming evidence of racism in America's police forces. It's a campaign that's spread around the world due to the everyday racism that black people suffer in other countries, including this one.

Unfortunately, the UK is full of them.

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

The vast majority of people in the UK understandably don't think a great deal about police violence in the USA any more than they think about police violence in Egypt or India. 

To understand why Black Lives Matters isn't exclusionary and White Lives Matters should be avoided requires contextual knowledge that British voters largely don't have. Celebrities using racial discourse they have picked up from American Twitter to scold white people in the UK is only going to increase reactionary tendencies. 

Well, let's talk about Police violence in the UK then. Menezes, Duggan - two men who might be alive today (even if one, at least, may well be in prison) had it not been for British Police being too keen to use the shiny toys they get issued.

Or let's talk about the imbalance in the British Justice system. Black males far more likely to be stopped and searched, UK Prison population is over 26% BAME, and that rises to over 50% in the Youth and Juvenile Estate (Under 21s)  compared to the population in general being  around 13% BAME. Is that because that's who commits all the crimes? There are actually people who believe this to be the case.

At a possibly lower level, although imho massively important in the suppression of the public's rights, look at the student protests in 2010*. The footage from one clearly showed Police leaning over the barriers on College Green to beat across the back (with what I can tell you is an efficient weapon) protesters trying to leave the area. The dragging of a wheelchair-bound protester out of his chair and over to the side of the road while mounted police were about to sweep the embankment was another highlight. None of the Met's brain donors thought that they could have, y'know, wheeled him out of the way...

"Yeah, but they rioted and damaged Government buildings. The Prince of Wales got attacked." Did he? did he really? Any damage done was maybe, just maybe, contributed to by the tactice of kettling innocent British citizens on Westminster Bridge for hours - Rosette No. 1 included. She asked politely to be allowed to leave, so as to find a toilet. She was told no.

"OK, then, I'll just have to pee in the gutter."

"Do that and you'll be nicked."

"What for?"

"We'll decide that when you're in the van."

Not all Police are cúnts, but the powers invested in the uniform and equipment allow cúnts to flourish.

*Student Riots, if you're a Mail/Express reader.