BFTD Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: No just Spain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet No, I meant those types of caricature. I seem to remember the Dutch having some too, and they turn up in places like Japan, where they seem to have no idea what it's related to but think it's cool, like the youngsters who fetishise Nazi iconography without actually being fascist monsters themselves. Seems like Black Peter first turned up in 1850, so maybe there's a common root there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I was in Amsterdam for the Christmas parade a few years back, it was certainly something. Thousands of people blacked up in the parade and abseiling down the buildings, all down the Main Street. They were followed by Santa on a big white horse. Very odd to see having not known the history behind it all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkmenbashi Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I was absolutely shocked when I saw it here in Belgium. Yet no one here, even my supposedly liberal friends can see how it's offensive. Because it's for the kids, so it's ok. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Context matters. In the US it has a long history of white performers blacking up to perform as mocking caricatures of black people. It also acted as a means of (and god help me I am going to use those two words) cultural appropriation, they could take black art and earn a living off it while blacks where shut out from earning from their art. The style of act also happened in the UK over many decades. Given this happened to a back drop of widespread extrajudicial murder of black people in the US, almost everything about the act was Chernobyl level toxic. In the likes of the low countries it would have perhaps been less full on KKK level toxic but was intended in a demeaning way. But not that long ago it was common to think of other Europeans in pretty demeaning ways. But we no longer live in a time when such humour could be written off as naive and these countries have immigrant populations that now have faced racism and other problems so any excuses that you could have made have not to be placed in a world where the context has very much changed. In Spain they have a much longer and a very different context. Spain was in effect colonised by north Africans in the early medieval era. They fought a war over centuries to regain the territory. So this may influence some representations there. But when it comes to a religious figure, not such something about Christmas, the Magi who were among the first to venerate The Christ are seen as very important figures to Christians. Black make up for one of them would not be mocking. But again the context has changed and these countries have people who are of that skin colour who can act the part. Some English Morris Dancing troupes use back face. They claim in previous centuries this allowed them to earn money from it by using it as a covering of their features, others claim it has a racial connotation. It guess which of those you choose will depend on how much you hate Morris Dancing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, dorlomin said: Some English Morris Dancing troupes use back face. They claim in previous centuries this allowed them to earn money from it by using it as a covering of their features, others claim it has a racial connotation. It guess which of those you choose will depend on how much you hate Morris Dancing. Words cannot express how much I hate Morris Dancing so I'll take the second one, just because. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 4 hours ago, saint dave said: Saw this in a shop in Tenerife a couple of years ago , where do you even begin to try and explain that something like that was still in use ? Is that Justin Trudeau? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Gordon EF said: Is that Justin Trudeau? Jamie Robson, I believe. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/jamie-robson-dundee-united-blackface-picture-instagram-blacked-up-club-investigation-a8679146.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 hours ago, saint dave said: Saw this in a shop in Tenerife a couple of years ago , where do you even begin to try and explain that something like that was still in use ? A couple of decades ago surely? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutankhamen Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Be interesting to see what happens on Saturday morning in George Square at the anti Fash rally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said: Be interesting to see what happens on Saturday morning in George Square at the anti Fash rally. I'm of an age where I keep thinking that "anti Fash" is a rally against an ex Wimbledon striker which would be a tad racist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 'acceptable bit of fun' said the Tory MP Sir Desmond Swayne 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 13 hours ago, dorlomin said: In Spain they have a much longer and a very different context. Spain was in effect colonised by north Africans in the early medieval era. They fought a war over centuries to regain the territory. So this may influence some representations there. But when it comes to a religious figure, not such something about Christmas, the Magi who were among the first to venerate The Christ are seen as very important figures to Christians. Black make up for one of them would not be mocking. But again the context has changed and these countries have people who are of that skin colour who can act the part. That reminds me, saw this in Cartagena last year 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Tutankhamen said: Be interesting to see what happens on Saturday morning in George Square at the anti Fash rally. So far there's about 1000 folk in the sun enjoying a variety of anti-racist speakers and about 50 gammon da's fuming at the back staring at horse's arses 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: So far there's about 1000 folk in the sun enjoying a variety of anti-racist speakers and about 50 gammon da's fuming at the back staring at horse's arses They should ask the other gammon da's in front of them to move. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 10 hours ago, tamthebam said: I'm of an age where I keep thinking that "anti Fash" is a rally against an ex Wimbledon striker which would be a tad racist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Bring on the dancing horses edit: a lot of folk on twitter saying this is the green bigots supposedly trying to geet into geeorge square to joing the protest, not sure if true but these folk are c***s too and hope the polis lock up all louts performing in glasgow Edited June 20, 2020 by dirty dingus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: So far there's about 1000 folk in the sun enjoying a variety of anti-racist speakers and about 50 gammon da's fuming at the back staring at horse's arses ^^^ staring at a horse's arse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Grand Wizard of the OO proving what a bunch of c***s they are - McHarg told the Record that he rejects any claims of racism or neo-Nazism being on display McHarg refused to condemn the actions of protesters at George Square, where six were arrested after clashes with police and with activists seeking to stop evictions of refugees. He said he would confront Yousaf on alleged discrimination against loyalist groups. McHarg claims protesters who have gathered under the banners of the National Defence League and Scottish Protestants Against Discrimination (SPAD) are “proud patriots and Unionists”. He said: “I will not be condemning any of those who are trying to do their patriotic duty in defending these statues because they believe in this nation.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Who are the statues at George Square of and do any of them have a shameful past? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Dee Man said: Who are the statues at George Square of and do any of them have a shameful past? Sir Walter Scott was a season ticket holder at Ibrox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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