George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Bell™]

8 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I don't think there's evidence to support that. 

He had a habit of joining whatever party was most likely to get him elected at the time, rather than face being out of parliament. He spent five months in Belgium during the Great War, largely behind the lines, then applied to get back to London and the safety of the Houses of Parliament. He made an arse of Gallipoli, but was on the Dardanelles Committee which looked into why it was a disaster and was therefore not blamed. He made an arse of the Norway campaign in 1940 and yet used the failure of the campaign to engineer his way into power by distancing himself from the government and shifting the blame onto them. He had an opportunity to end the war earlier by supporting the German generals' coup against Hitler and didn't take it, favouring a complete destruction of Germany instead (because completely destroying the German economy and military-industrial complex had worked so well in 1919 to prevent any future aggression from that state). He was comprehensively voted out at the first opportunity after the war, and immediately wrote a history book painting himself in a great light, then set off on a lecture tour of the USA where he stoked up anti-Sovyet feeling and aided the onset of the Cold War.

But apart from that and a dozen other examples, there isn't much evidence that he was a total wido and chancer.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

It's ok to put up statues of genocidal b*****ds, just as long as there aren't many people from the group he murdered living nearby? And if people in that group should later move to that country, their grandchildren shouldn't have a say about that statue?

Aw mate...

Apart from everything else wrong with that, when Colston's statue was erected slavery had been illegal for 63 years. They knew.

Do you seriously think that the average person in the street gives a mokeys fcuk about statues and what they represent ?? i'm sure that they're more concerned about feeding themselves and their families as these are "real" world issues that ordinary people need to deal with day to day.

All this moral high ground stuff and tokenism is great for the privileged middle classes (many who post on here) who have plenty of time on their hands and want to feel better about themselves, however back in the real world there's much more important things needing addressed in today's society.

Who knows, maybe if the same "outraged" people were outraged about current situations such as child poverty, the wealth and attainment gap, the loosening of workers rights, not to mention the corruption within our Government, then maybe, just maybe, they would indeed make the world a better place, however I'm not holding my breath.

[Gordon EF]

11 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

So anyway, where do we stop ? Do we tear down all the listed buildings that were built with the money from the slave trade ? as surely they must be seen as "trophys" and a constant reminder of the ill gotten gains ??

Seriously though, where do we draw the line here ???

Well, no I don't think any serious person is suggesting tearing down buildings or digging up streets just because they might have some connection to slavery money. That would be completely counter-productive.

Statues are basically bits of metal or stone that have no real utility other than saying 'we think this person is/was worth having a statue of'.

I think you've seriously got to ask yourself why you're so defensive about getting rid of statues of rich b*****ds, who'd have left you to die in a ditch and didn't contribute a whole lot apart from being ludicrously rich and exploiting people.

Because that's all 90% of folk are in favour of. the vast majority are not in favour of purging our towns, cities and history books of anyone who might have said something a little bit unsavoury at some point.

[NotThePars]

Am enjoying that there's now people using this moment to start arguing that Churchill was a liability and effectively sidelined by the other Allies. That should give a few more gammon aneurysms.

[NotThePars]

3 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Do you seriously think that the average person in the street gives a mokeys fcuk about statues and what they represent ?? i'm sure that they're more concerned about feeding themselves and their families as these are "real" world issues that ordinary people need to deal with day to day.

All this moral high ground stuff and tokenism is great for the privileged middle classes (many who post on here) who have plenty of time on their hands and want to feel better about themselves, however back in the real world there's much more important things needing addressed in today's society.

Who knows, maybe if the same "outraged" people were outraged about current situations such as child poverty, the wealth and attainment gap, the loosening of workers rights, not to mention the corruption within our Government, then maybe, just maybe, they would indeed make the world a better place, however I'm not holding my breath.

 

On 09/06/2020 at 16:37, NotThePars said:

Willing to put everything that I've got that the majority of people involved in ripping that statue down have devoted more time and energy on these issues that you're weaponising than you ever have

 

 

[Dee Man]

2 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Do you seriously think that the average person in the street gives a mokeys fcuk about statues and what they represent ?? i'm sure that they're more concerned about feeding themselves and their families as these are "real" world issues that ordinary people need to deal with day to day.

I'm with you here. I have no time to care about anything else in the world as I am too busy providing for my family. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

Well, no I don't think any serious person is suggesting tearing down buildings or digging up streets just because they might have some connection to slavery money. That would be completely counter-productive.

Statues are basically bits of metal or stone that have no real utility other than saying 'we think this person is/was worth having a statue of'.

I think you've seriously got to ask yourself why you're so defensive about getting rid of statues of rich b*****ds, who'd have left you to die in a ditch and didn't contribute a whole lot apart from being ludicrously rich and exploiting people.

Because that's all 90% of folk are in favour of. the vast majority are not in favour of purging our towns, cities and history books of anyone who might have said something a little bit unsavoury at some point.

It's the 10% i'm worried about.

[Guest]

I'm afraid you'd have lost your money then.

[Dee Man]

How many statues have been ripped down in Scotland anyway?

[Bairnardo]

How many statues have been ripped down in Scotland anyway?

Less than enough.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Hopefully they build a J K Rowling statue for the sole purpose of throwing it into the sea.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

Seems a bit contradictory to argue that statues are unimportant and then be absolutely seething about them being taken down.

[hearthammer]

3 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

 

You'd have thought the fact that some wee timmy/feenyun/kafflick had already defaced the statue by painting the horse black would have had the neanderthal "peepuls" on guard 24/7.  

[Forest_Fifer]

You know it's funny, these statues have stood for over a century in most cases and I can't recall you nor indeed anyone else even mentioning them in passing up until last week.
What can I say, you obviously weren't THAT concerned about them.
So anyway, where do we stop ? Do we tear down all the listed buildings that were built with the money from the slave trade ? as surely they must be seen as "trophys" and a constant reminder of the ill gotten gains ??
Seriously though, where do we draw the line here ???

There have been campaigns for years to at the very least put a new plaque up on the Colston statue to explain his part in the slave trade, but the local gammons wouldnt have it.
I see the council have pulled it out of the water now, but they're leaving the spray paint and ropes on it for the time being until they decide what to do with it.

[Gordon EF]

20 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

It's the 10% i'm worried about.

Well I would be too. i know it's tempting to take a loony you disagree with and pretend they're representative of the other side but it's disingenuous.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Gordon EF

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Do you seriously think that the average person in the street gives a mokeys fcuk about statues and what they represent ?? i'm sure that they're more concerned about feeding themselves and their families as these are "real" world issues that ordinary people need to deal with day to day.
All this moral high ground stuff and tokenism is great for the privileged middle classes (many who post on here) who have plenty of time on their hands and want to feel better about themselves, however back in the real world there's much more important things needing addressed in today's society.
Who knows, maybe if the same "outraged" people were outraged about current situations such as child poverty, the wealth and attainment gap, the loosening of workers rights, not to mention the corruption within our Government, then maybe, just maybe, they would indeed make the world a better place, however I'm not holding my breath.

Stunned that the thickest person on P&B doesn't comprehend that it is possible to give a f**k about two issues at the same time.

[Gordon EF]

2 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

27 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Do you seriously think that the average person in the street gives a mokeys fcuk about statues and what they represent ?? i'm sure that they're more concerned about feeding themselves and their families as these are "real" world issues that ordinary people need to deal with day to day.
All this moral high ground stuff and tokenism is great for the privileged middle classes (many who post on here) who have plenty of time on their hands and want to feel better about themselves, however back in the real world there's much more important things needing addressed in today's society.
Who knows, maybe if the same "outraged" people were outraged about current situations such as child poverty, the wealth and attainment gap, the loosening of workers rights, not to mention the corruption within our Government, then maybe, just maybe, they would indeed make the world a better place, however I'm not holding my breath.

Stunned that the thickest person on P&B doesn't comprehend that it is possible to give a f**k about two issues at the same time.

I'm pretty sure WATOO is pro-independence but it's straight out of the thick unionist playbook of whataboutery...

"WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT SEPARATION WHEN MY BINS STILL NEED SORTING"

"STURGEON CAN'T EVEN FIX THE DOG SHIT THAT KEEPS APPEARING IN THE CUL DE SAC, HOW CAN SHE RUN A COUNTRY?"

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Gordon EF

[Gordon EF]

The "average person" is such a shite way to judge things. Of course the average person doesn't give a lot of thought to these statues. The average person in the UK's ancestors weren't enslaved and brutalised by these people and the average person doesn't experience the same racism that led to slavery being acceptable in those days. You'd hope that in a decent society, the average person could be reasonable enough to put themselves in the position of those who are/do though.

[Tony Ferrino]

6 minutes ago, Snafu said:

I'm quite sure that the average persons what ever the f**k that means?? which includes us on a football forum are concerned about racism and find it unacceptable regardless of what else is going on. Which is why over the years we have become less and less tolerant of racist behaviour and for some time has been regarded as a hate crime punishable by law.

As much as individuals have the decision to take matters into their own hands, some of the blame should be put on Bristol City Council who put off and put off removing the statue after years of having requests to take it down as many find it offensive. Colston Hall in Bristol is going to be renamed in August after the council decided to give it a name change a couple of years ago.

 

 

 

Alice Roberts needs some recognition imo. A statue and hall would do for now.

[Shandon Par]

The statues here are also reminder to us all to keep in our place. Some folk get furious, you may have spotted a few on here, at the notion that there can be another path in life beyond a history written by the wealthy to show themselves in a good light. 

We even call ourselves Great Britain and people in Scotland actually voted to remain part of that shameful smear we inflicted on the world. We're great as we went about murdering, enslaving and pillaging the world. The wealth then stayed with the few so even in this country we're fed this line about how great it is/was when in fact it has never been anything other than a tiny percentage hoarding the wealth. 

Get all the statues of these establishment figures to f**k. Get the royals to f**k and turn their castles into social housing. It would start to make the world a better and more equal place. Suggesting that we stop being a shower of horrible c***s is not radical. So many of the young generation coming through seem like a great bunch and have no time for the ways of the gammon and the past.