The Moonster Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said: Now that's hurtful! It took me a wee while to make that. I certainly hope your day job isn't a graphic designer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I’m still struggling to work out how “the slave trade was/is bad and we shouldn’t commemorate the people who perpetrated it” is an extremist position. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 We sure it's Jeremiah Cole ? More than a hint of Swampy or banana imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: We sure it's Jeremiah Cole ? More than a hint of Swampy or banana imo. Posts are too short for Swampy and not enough/insufficient forward slashes for banana. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: I’m still struggling to work out how “the slave trade was/is bad and we shouldn’t commemorate the people who perpetrated it” is an extremist position. You're ignoring that literally everyone until about 20 years ago owned slaves, nobody knew any better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Posts are too short for Swampy and not enough/insufficient forward slashes for banana. You're probably right. There's been no mention of feminazis yet which would also rule out banana. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 If Germany had won that war then a century later you'd have people on Pilsner and Strudel arguing that the intolerant left were ignoring that Hitler spent billions on German hospitals and schools from the Rhine to the Volga when they pulled a statue down in East Prussia.Can't beat a good Strudel washed down with Pilsner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, NotThePars said: You're ignoring that literally everyone until about 20 years ago owned slaves, nobody knew any better. They still do in Ayrshire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 47 minutes ago, Paco said: Are you really comparing a statue of some nobody who 90% of people walk past without knowing or caring who it is, to Auschwitz? And really if we’re talking equivalents you’d be looking at a statue of Hitler or Höss in the middle of Tel Aviv. Just, you know, so they could learn from it. They wouldn't learn very much if 90% of those walking past didn't know who he was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 45 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: Oh, dear - total minter for me. I honestly read that as "Obama". That'll teach me to be carrying out two concurrent online conversations. Please accept that my opinion of yer man Bin laden is that he was a spoilt wee rich kid who, when he got the Sky Fairy bug, had the resources to elevate his cúntry to a much higher level. I understand where you're coming from with the reference to Auschwitz, to an extent. The difference, to me, is that it is not a memorial that has been erected to glorify an individual or even to glorify the government which created the conditions which made it possible - it is preserved as a reminder that we must remember how humans can treat others if left unchecked, and that we must never, ever allow such a thing to happen again. A lesson which we appear not to have learned. I don't wish to appear hypocritical in taking issue with what a black man has to say on the subject, but perhaps Sir Geoffrey might consider that people might remember slavery if the history curriculum concentrated less on Kings, Queens and wars, and more on societal issues througout the ages. Many of which were caused by Kings, Queens and wars, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsOfficialMoaner Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Statue of John Robertson on Easter Rd just to help them learn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: 37 minutes ago, NotThePars said: If Germany had won that war then a century later you'd have people on Pilsner and Strudel arguing that the intolerant left were ignoring that Hitler spent billions on German hospitals and schools from the Rhine to the Volga when they pulled a statue down in East Prussia. Can't beat a good Strudel washed down with Pilsner. Doner Haus can't open quickly enough IMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bell™ Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Sinner-to-Saint said: If I was to move to Rome, would it be reasonable for me to demand that certain statues are removed? I am British and Britons were conquered and enslaved by Romans. Therefore should I object to statues glorifying the people who enslaved my ancestors? I'm merely applying the logic used by many people on here to another situation. can you prove with any certainty that any of your antecedents were enslaved by the Romans? Because any Afro-Caribbean folk can prove that they were enslaved by British plantation quite easily. Therefore, arguing that the Italians should destroy 2,000-year-old statues because some of your ancestors might have been slaves somewhere between 1,600 and 1,900 years ago is a bit of a stretch, i'd say, and not really comparable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said: There is ongoing structural and institutionalised racism against black people in the UK which is a direct legacy of the racism and slavery of empire. Challenging the commemoration of those who perpetuated that colonial racism plays a part in challenging and undermining that continuing racism. OK. Educate me. Maybe just because of my experiences or that I don't get offended easily but I honestly think that overaall, we a welcoming, non racist country. Obviously we have some fruit loops, but in general we are more tolerant than almost every other country. Am I naive? I am aware of the Met and Windrush but I believe it is more about class and the Oxbridge mob / House of Lords type people. They are not simple racist, just against everyone beneath them who happen to include almost everyone from all backgrounds. So, what other institutions here are racist? What other countries handle racism better? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: These days, if you erase positive statements about regimes and tear up celebrated journals and destroy statues and ensure there's no positive references in a song and change your whole beliefs to satisfy a few extremists, you get thrown in jail. Anyway to be halfway serious for a moment @WATTOO most people on this planet have one of these in their brains to help them make sense of philosophical questions: But you've got one of these: On the contrary, I like to see all sides of things as nothing is EVER just Black or White (again, pardon the pun). Does racism exist in the USA ? Of course it does. Was George Floyd murdered and did he deserve to die ? Yes he was and of course he didn't. Should we airbrush our history and remove anything which is now perceived as unsavoury ? No, I don't believe we should as people should be able to understand the context of the time and indeed how things have changed. Personally I'd see that as a positive and a very valuable lesson in the evolution of society and its views / outlook on life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I'm rarely surprised by racism in this country but I've got ot admit, even I've been taken aback by how in less the a fortnight, the right have gone from the morally defensible position of "I get why people are angry but they should protest peacefully," to "Here's why slavery was actually fine." 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, WATTOO said: Should we airbrush our history and remove anything which is now perceived as unsavoury ? No, I don't believe we should as people should be able to understand the context of the time and indeed how things have changed. Personally I'd see that as a positive and a very valuable lesson in the evolution of society and its views / outlook on life. Removing things like statues and renaming streets or buildings is not airbrushing history. The history isn’t being retold in a different way or hidden, these things are being demoted from being an object of commemoration and reward to going in a museum or a river. This in itself would be a powerful historical event, making it rather than airbrushing it. How can people understand how these things have changed when the majority of a predominantly white society have no idea if they have or not? Racism in the U.K. is most often hidden, in the form of having to apply for jobs or flats more than three times the amount a white person has to (I know friends in both those categories) and being unable to demonstrate this is racism because they always just have “better candidates”. I didn’t know anything about the history of Colston till the statue was brought down. These things teach us nothing where there is no explanations about what they did and most people walk straight past them. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted June 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, WATTOO said: Should we airbrush our history and remove anything which is now perceived as unsavoury ? No, I don't believe we should as people should be able to understand the context of the time and indeed how things have changed. Personally I'd see that as a positive and a very valuable lesson in the evolution of society and its views / outlook on life. I could maybe, possibly accept this if it wasn't so selectively applied. A massive part of British identity is based on wilfully ignoring the historical context to anything. I'm tired of specious arguments about how we shouldn't impose our values on the past. "It was legal at the time!" they shout. Well, yes, of course it was. Atrocities committed by governments as opposed to individuals are often 'legal'. What the Nazis did in Germany was legal. Segregation was legal. Something can be legal and clearly, plainly immoral. "Most people at the time saw it as acceptable!" they scream. Pretty sure that the millions of people being kindapped, transported, maimed, raped and murdered didn't see it that way. Erasing their perspective is a fascinating insight into how you view the world. The rallying cry of "We mustn't sanitise history!" comes mostly from those dedicated to sanitising the reputations of individuals they admire and an empire they are proud of. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Quite a lot of people seem more upset about statues being toppled than they are about black people being murdered. Such views show exactly why protests like these are still relevant. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandon Par Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: I'm rarely surprised by racism in this country but I've got ot admit, even I've been taken aback by how in less the a fortnight, the right have gone from the morally defensible position of "I get why people are angry but they should protest peacefully," to "Here's why slavery was actually fine." I think my eyeballs might fall out the next time they have to read "people had diferent values then". Obviously we were not there to ask them personally but I'm not sure the folk shackled and sent across the ocean to work were ever that okay with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.