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welshbairn

2020/21 Highland League Fixtures

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6 hours ago, Highland ITFC said:

Always perplexed when people who one assumes are football fans - why would one be on here if not? - seem to have such a downer on supporting the notion of using agreed protocols / precautions to get fans back to watch the game that they love..

If we take your argument above, then the same logic would mean that none of us would be able to go into a supermarket whilst other people that are not part of one's own two family / households group are in there, & would have to wait outside until everybody else came out. But it doesn't work that way. We're all permitted to go into the Tesco around the corner from Borough Briggs, as long as we follow the agreed precautions of washing / sanitising our hands, wearing a face mask, & keeping our distance from others - & Tesco is responsible for determining if too many people are in there & accordingly restricting capacity - yet we can't go into BB to watch a football match, where similarly capacity could be restricted as deemed necessary / safe. Likewise when Elgin played Lossiemouth in a friendly a couple of weeks back, & everybody could go to the funfair that was set up on the ground beside BB, with nobody restricting capacity, but couldn't go in to watch the football. Logic suggests that if we're trusted to go shopping & go to the funfair, then why not another where similar precautions can be in place?  Doesn't it?

Maybe he really loves football but doesn't think it's possible for it to be done safely enough at the moment? You may not agree but it's a reasonable opinion and it's very insulting to accuse someone who sees it that way of not being a true fan.

Comparisons with Tesco are pretty invidious - we all need to eat. Funfairs, I'll give you, but even then I'll bet they support more jobs than non-league football.

And just because something isn't banned, I wouldn't presume that makes it safe. I won't be going to a pub, restaurant, cinema or funfair until things start calming down again.

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51 minutes ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

Postponed until November 28th at the earliest.

Came on here after seeing that - are Brora still playing in the League Cup? It'll be very tough going straight from a couple of friendlies in 7 months to Hibs away. 

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They still are, yes. That’ll be a game and a half for them. Dunno what friendlies they have lined up this week but they’ll need a stiffer test than Orkney who they beat on the weekend.

 

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10 hours ago, GordonS said:

Maybe he really loves football but doesn't think it's possible for it to be done safely enough at the moment? You may not agree but it's a reasonable opinion and it's very insulting to accuse someone who sees it that way of not being a true fan.

 

Does he f**k, he just doesn't like the idea of lower league clubs getting treated differently from Premiership and Championship clubs, despite the safety issues being on a totally different scale.

Edited by welshbairn

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12 hours ago, GordonS said:

Comparisons with Tesco are pretty invidious - we all need to eat. Funfairs, I'll give you, but even then I'll bet they support more jobs than non-league football.

I'd be very surprised if that were the case.

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12 hours ago, GordonS said:

Maybe he really loves football but doesn't think it's possible for it to be done safely enough at the moment? You may not agree but it's a reasonable opinion and it's very insulting to accuse someone who sees it that way of not being a true fan.

Comparisons with Tesco are pretty invidious - we all need to eat. Funfairs, I'll give you, but even then I'll bet they support more jobs than non-league football.

And just because something isn't banned, I wouldn't presume that makes it safe. I won't be going to a pub, restaurant, cinema or funfair until things start calming down again.

You've quite rightly hit on a very important part of the discussion here Gordon....personal choice. You are saying that you won't be going to all the places that you've listed above, which of course if your choice to make, but them being open & able to operate has been decided by ScotGov as being safe, assuming the precautions that we all know are observed, & accordingly many people are happy & comfortable to visit these places. Football, or any other sport, should be no different. Agree & implement appropriate precautions, open for business, & those that want & feel comfortable to go will do so, & those that don't can choose not to do so. Freedom of choice, & no stopping a business that could operate safely from doing so.

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15 hours ago, GordonS said:

Came on here after seeing that - are Brora still playing in the League Cup? It'll be very tough going straight from a couple of friendlies in 7 months to Hibs away. 

Brora are no different from every other team from Championship & below with regards to having no competitive game in 7 months.

With regards to them playing Hibs I totally agree, don't think there is ever an easy time to play Hibs for an HL club but this occasion will be particularly challenging for them.

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4 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

I'd be very surprised if that were the case.

There's possibly more money in non-league football but almost all the labour is voluntary. The only real losers are the players at the bigger clubs, who get paid a decent chunk of money. There are hundreds, maybe well over a thousand, full-time (though mostly seasonal) employees in funfairs in Scotland. How many people directly depend on non-league football for their livelihoods? It really could be zero... apart from the guy that runs the Juniors.

4 hours ago, Highland ITFC said:

You've quite rightly hit on a very important part of the discussion here Gordon....personal choice. You are saying that you won't be going to all the places that you've listed above, which of course if your choice to make, but them being open & able to operate has been decided by ScotGov as being safe, assuming the precautions that we all know are observed, & accordingly many people are happy & comfortable to visit these places. Football, or any other sport, should be no different. Agree & implement appropriate precautions, open for business, & those that want & feel comfortable to go will do so, & those that don't can choose not to do so. Freedom of choice, & no stopping a business that could operate safely from doing so.

I don't think it should be a matter of personal choice and we can't be our own epidemiologists. The Scottish Government haven't said pubs are safe, they've said they don't have the money to close them. We can't have choice because as long as there are enough people choosing to live life normally, there will be a reservoir of infection. It's all very well for younger, healthy people to have freedom, but that freedom will kill others. We cannot go into the winter like this.

If we in the UK had held our nerve, kept going with lockdown until we had a really good test and trace in place and checks at points of entry, we could have been clear of this bloody thing by now. There's a reason why we have one of the very worst death rates in the world from coronavirus. We're even worse than the USA.

I'm not talking about non-league football here specifically, because I don't know enough to evaluate the risk, but I know that a lot of people who know no more than me are happy to assume it will all be fine. I wish I had their confidence.

Anyway, back to the point... I've got a season ticket for my club, just renewed this week, and I've been to well over 100 games in the past two seasons, maybe 130. There's a suggestion around that "real" fans want grounds re-opened and my point is that this is really unfair and untrue.

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1 hour ago, Samsonite said:

Brora are no different from every other team from Championship & below with regards to having no competitive game in 7 months.

I know, but it would be weird to post about them on the Highland League forum!

I like to see the LL and HL clubs do well in the League Cup, and I fear for Brora with Hibs away being first up. Mind you, maybe they'll have a better crack at the other league sides who will be undercooked too. Might we see more shocks? Dundee would be a proper scalp.

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Guessing that the winter call offs are added to the picture, looks like the HL may start next year with just the one set of fixtures ? If the HL somehow doesn't finish the season, how does that affect the play-off games ? Just wondering, depends what/if any leagues get completed.

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On 28/09/2020 at 14:03, welshbairn said:

You don't need to be an epidemiologist to realise that at the Highland League level of football it's not a major problem to preserve social distancing. 

The current restrictions prevent people from more than two households from meeting in the same outdoor space - a public park for example. You cannot meet two separate grandparents in somebody's garden. Please explain then how opening a 100x70 football ground (or similar) to dozens/hundreds of households to congregate at the exact same time somehow falls outwith the bounds of existing restrictions imposed on the rest of society.

Spoiler

A: It doesn't, and given your braying approval for all other restrictions that don't affect you this can be discarded as a case of special pleading.

 

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11 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Does he f**k, he just doesn't like the idea of lower league clubs getting treated differently from Premiership and Championship clubs, despite the safety issues being on a totally different scale.

In what way are the safety issues 'on a completely different scale' for Stranraer or Albion Rovers than for Clach, Brora or indeed Bonnyrigg or Auchinleck in the other non-league region? Be extremely specific. Why should the former be allowed to have crowds but not SPFL League Two?

There's no credible basis for crowds at football returning at any level while the government is stopping three different households from meeting each other in a park. The conclusion that people should draw from this is that they must now put the game in deep freeze until all the wider social restrictions are lifted, instead of whining about injustice, signing ludicrous petitions and then trying to jump through 17 different hoops to produce a dung, sanitised version of the real experience. 

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59 minutes ago, virginton said:

In what way are the safety issues 'on a completely different scale' for Stranraer or Albion Rovers than for Clach, Brora or indeed Bonnyrigg or Auchinleck in the other non-league region? Be extremely specific. Why should the former be allowed to have crowds but not SPFL League Two?

There's no credible basis for crowds at football returning at any level while the government is stopping three different households from meeting each other in a park. The conclusion that people should draw from this is that they must now put the game in deep freeze until all the wider social restrictions are lifted, instead of whining about injustice, signing ludicrous petitions and then trying to jump through 17 different hoops to produce a dung, sanitised version of the real experience. 

Stranraer and Albion Rovers aren't in the Premiership or Championship. I've tried to explain this to you a few times now, it's really not difficult. A 200-300 limit would be life as normal for most clubs below the Championship, and would be easy to control.

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1 hour ago, virginton said:

The current restrictions prevent people from more than two households from meeting in the same outdoor space - a public park for example. You cannot meet two separate grandparents in somebody's garden. Please explain then how opening a 100x70 football ground (or similar) to dozens/hundreds of households to congregate at the exact same time somehow falls outwith the bounds of existing restrictions imposed on the rest of society.

  Reveal hidden contents

A: It doesn't, and given your braying approval for all other restrictions that don't affect you this can be discarded as a case of special pleading.

 

Three households can easily and legally be in the same park if they're not huddled together, you're just being silly. 

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39 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Stranraer and Albion Rovers aren't in the Premiership or Championship. I've tried to explain this to you a few times now, it's really not difficult. A 200-300 limit would be life as normal for most clubs below the Championship, and would be easy to control.

How many other non-essential venues are currently open to 300 people over a two hour maximum period of time? How would it be 'easy to control' crowding points at entries, exits, toilets etc. at a level where crowd supervision amounts to an old timer volunteer keeping people in their place? This is utter nonsense.

In reality, it would actually be much easier for larger venues with more entry points and regular stewards to control a similar size of crowd than your beloved non-league grade - but as the SG has no interest in encouraging non-essential crowds to congregate anywhere right now that is irrelevant.

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47 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Three households can easily and legally be in the same park if they're not huddled together, you're just being silly. 

Huddled together like the crowd at a football game for example?

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15 minutes ago, virginton said:

Huddled together like the crowd at a football game for example?

Is that what you all do at Cappielow, huddle? Is that why you go?

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If social distancing is managed properly then there is less chance of a few hundred people spread out in a football ground catching it than a few hundred mingling about in a public park. It all depends on what your priorities are. What is the end game? What happens if we don’t get a viable vaccine for say 20 years,? What happens if they don’t get enough people to accept  a viable vaccine?

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