Scotland's League One and Two could be off until JANUARY

[Grangemouth Bairn]

On 23/05/2020 at 15:26, AGPar said:

No I understood the conversation perfectly thanks. And I wasn't aware my club had  chucked any staff under a bus, you're obviously privy to information that no other supporter has, nothing even reported on the club website, strange. Your argument about the "circumstances of each league being different" is far, far too sweeping and generalistic. It takes no account whatsoever of the financial position and stewardship of the individual clubs within them. Essentially, Leagues 1 and 2 = part-time, short term contracts, no ability to generate any commercial revenue outwith a match-day, no prospect whatsoever of them being able to kick a ball for a considerable amount of time therefore go off and hibernate for a while and we'll wake you up if and when it's safe to play football in front of spectators again. And presumably that is them also out of the Scottish Cup as well. The "Lump All the Diddies Together" approach so beloved of Doncaster and his ilk for far too long. Except there are full-time clubs in these divisions, some clubs with players on longer contracts, some clubs with reasonable financial backing, some who, god forbid, may wish to play next season. But they are to be denied that opportunity by virtue of nothing more than the league they currently find themselves in. Whilst the Premier League has clubs leaking £1m per month, clubs living for nothing more than the next opportunity to hand over 3/4 of their stadium to the bigot brothers, a club who have just spent inordinate amounts of money to get there. Clubs who, in any objective assessment, are poorly run and probably in no position whatsoever to undertake their business without their major source of income. But they play on. At a time like this, Scottish football needs far more flexible and innovative thinking than that, not that they will get it. They should be liaising with every single club to discuss and assess their ability to participate IN next season, the requirements, potential costs of testing, everything and those deemed capable of , and wishing to do so sure as hell should not be restrained from playing. And if they did that, there'd quite possibly be a few Premier League clubs sitting on the sidelines and a few of the lower league diddies playing. 

Totally agree with your point about a lot of Premier League clubs big focus being how many tickets they can sell to the bigot brothers.

[stuartcraig]

Its what will happen if you want to start, yet another, petty squabble vote over a redistribution of prize money. The current reconstruction vote is still ongoing, so if you're expecting a prize money vote to be cleared up within 2 months then you're deluded.
Still no idea why Premiership clubs, who will have full outgoings, and major losses, have to suffer all that to protect a TV deal, while also cutting their own prize money, simply to hand over more money to clubs who presumably will have almost no outgoings. Its fairly obvious the biggest financial losers if the top flight is forced to play on behind closed doors is the top flight sides, why is it suddenly a fair compromise to punish their players by forcing pay cuts/releases so top flight clubs dont go to the wall to help smaller clubs with no outgoings and wages paid by the government increase their income?

Why is a discussion about a more equitable distribution of TV revenue within the Scottish game “petty”?

Why does it have to be tied to reconstruction talks rather than an emergency interim measure based on the needs of all clubs?

Why would Premiership clubs have to continue to sustain full outgoings rather than reduce them by furloughing non essential staff? This would certainly make sense if, as you say, they stand to run at significant loss if they are relying on TV revenue.

Why do you presume that lower league clubs have no ongoings? They have ground maintenance, business rates, utility bills, debts to service etc. Pretty much the same as big clubs.

Why is it unfair for football players to be furloughed when employees of other businesses don’t get a similar exemption?

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, stuartcraig said:

 

Why is a discussion about a more equitable distribution of TV revenue within the Scottish game “petty”?

Why does it have to be tied to reconstruction talks rather than an emergency interim measure based on the needs of all clubs?

Why would Premiership clubs have to continue to sustain full outgoings rather than reduce them by furloughing non essential staff? This would certainly make sense if, as you say, they stand to run at significant loss if they are relying on TV revenue.

Why do you presume that lower league clubs have no ongoings? They have ground maintenance, business rates, utility bills, debts to service etc. Pretty much the same as big clubs.

Why is it unfair for football players to be furloughed when employees of other businesses don’t get a similar exemption?

 

Every clubs main outgoing is wages.

Top flight sides would still have to maintain the majority of outgoings to maintain the TV deal.

Your argument is effectively that it's unfair that employed people earn more money than unemployed people, so employed people should slash their wages and hand it to unemployed people every week, despite the fact they already pay taxes on their wages to help pay benefits.

[stuartcraig]

Every clubs main outgoing is wages.
Top flight sides would still have to maintain the majority of outgoings to maintain the TV deal.
Your argument is effectively that it's unfair that employed people earn more money than unemployed people, so employed people should slash their wages and hand it to unemployed people every week, despite the fact they already pay taxes on their wages to help pay benefits.

Nice strawman.

[Hank von Hell]

Why can't the Championship and perhaps lower leagues play at large bio-safe stadia such as Hampden and Murrayfield with crowds practicing social distancing?

Even in the Premiership with a capped capacity for the bigots - 10-15,000 at Murrayfield could still work safely. Those who cannot go can PPV.

Before you think I'm bonkers this is what they are pushing for in Australia in the NRL & AFL when they restart next month. 

[DA Baracus]

29 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said:

Why can't the Championship and perhaps lower leagues play at large bio-safe stadia such as Hampden and Murrayfield with crowds practicing social distancing?

Even in the Premiership with a capped capacity for the bigots - 10-15,000 at Murrayfield could still work safely. Those who cannot go can PPV.

Before you think I'm bonkers this is what they are pushing for in Australia in the NRL & AFL when they restart next month. 

Because it isn't affordable.

[Jacky1990]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52797428

Used to quite like Strachan, but he is monstrously out of touch with Scottish football with attitudes like this. Thank f**k he's nowhere near the Scotland job anymore.

Having a go at part time teams for trying to play and survive in the professional leagues and the general product on show even in the Premiership is proper English pundit shite. Scottish football might not have the best players, the most money or the biggest fan bases, but f**k me its's constantly entertaining on almost every level. Give me the nonsense of Scottish football over the soulless English Premier League any day of the week.

[Hank von Hell]

4 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Because it isn't affordable.

Is it though, maybe it's worth looking into.

For a club like Dunfermline your income I'd imagine is from crowds, hospitality and sponsorship. All of this could be accommodated in a Hampden Park which the SFA would have to lay on for nothing. Ian Maxwell said testing could be reduced to about 2K a week - with testing equipment on site and the costs spread amongst the clubs maybe even reduced further.

Add to that PPV streaming income and it's not that far off being affordable and surely better than being mothballed for a year  

[Bully Wee Villa]

He's not having a go at them for surviving, is he? He's having a go at them for not being professional.

He is still talking bollocks, obviously. Why would you expect an country of five million to have roughly 40% as many fully professional clubs as England (plus four of the biggest Welsh cities)? Their population must be 55 million.

I've always thought it is great that there are so many Scottish league clubs, relatively speaking, and all but a tiny percentage of Scots have a team within easy travelling distance.

The vast majority of teams accept that they won't be competing with the elite from Europe, or even Scotland, any time soon but they still evoke passionate support year in, year out and that's something to celebrate, not condescend like Strachan has done.

File next to "Scottish people are too short" in the Strachan List of Bullshit.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Bully Wee Villa

[TxRover]

8 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said:

Is it though, maybe it's worth looking into.

For a club like Dunfermline your income I'd imagine is from crowds, hospitality and sponsorship. All of this could be accommodated in a Hampden Park which the SFA would have to lay on for nothing. Ian Maxwell said testing could be reduced to about 2K a week - with testing equipment on site and the costs spread amongst the clubs maybe even reduced further.

Add to that PPV streaming income and it's not that far off being affordable and surely better than being mothballed for a year  

So, let’s look at reality. There are 11 SPFL teams with average home attendance over 5,000 (2019), and 12 more with over 1,000. So, right away, you can probably rule this out for half the teams, then you have to figure travel time/costs for fans. At that point it becomes less viable for all but a couple couple of Championship teams and the majority of the Premiership teams. Add to that that Premiership attendance figures are heavily skewed by the bigot brothers visits, and I doubt more than a half dozen teams couple actually make money on that proposal, given that attendance would likely be, at most, in the 1-2,000 range for all but the bigots and, perhaps, a couple of teams located close to the facilities.

[CALDERON]

3 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

He's not having a go at them for surviving, is he? He's having a go at them for not being professional.

He is still talking bollocks, obviously. Why would you expect an country of five million to have roughly 40% as many fully professional clubs as England (plus four of the biggest Welsh cities)? Their population must be 55 million.

I've always thought it is great that there are so many Scottish league clubs, relatively speaking, and all but a tiny percentage of Scots have a team within easy travelling distance.

The vast majority of teams accept that they won't be competing with the elite from Europe, or even Scotland, any time soon but they still evoke passionate support year in, year out and that's something to celebrate, not condescend like Strachan has done.

File next to "Scottish people are too short" in the Strachan List of Bullshit.

It's part of the "Small teams should exist to make the big teams better" thinking that drives the horrendous Colt team idea. 

[Hank von Hell]

4 hours ago, TxRover said:

So, let’s look at reality. There are 11 SPFL teams with average home attendance over 5,000 (2019), and 12 more with over 1,000. So, right away, you can probably rule this out for half the teams, then you have to figure travel time/costs for fans. At that point it becomes less viable for all but a couple couple of Championship teams and the majority of the Premiership teams. Add to that that Premiership attendance figures are heavily skewed by the bigot brothers visits, and I doubt more than a half dozen teams couple actually make money on that proposal, given that attendance would likely be, at most, in the 1-2,000 range for all but the bigots and, perhaps, a couple of teams located close to the facilities.

I think you are underestimating the attendance, supporters would come out in the time of need. And of course there could well be stadia used outside the central belt such as Pittodrie & Tannadice to suit logistics. 

Overheads/costs would have to be cut of course but this will happen regardless.

Surely it's preferable to playing behind closed doors or not playing at all for a year (or ever).

  

[DA Baracus]

4 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

He's not having a go at them for surviving, is he? He's having a go at them for not being professional.

He is still talking bollocks, obviously. Why would you expect an country of five million to have roughly 40% as many fully professional clubs as England (plus four of the biggest Welsh cities)? Their population must be 55 million.

I've always thought it is great that there are so many Scottish league clubs, relatively speaking, and all but a tiny percentage of Scots have a team within easy travelling distance.

The vast majority of teams accept that they won't be competing with the elite from Europe, or even Scotland, any time soon but they still evoke passionate support year in, year out and that's something to celebrate, not condescend like Strachan has done.

File next to "Scottish people are too short" in the Strachan List of Bullshit.

 

1 hour ago, CALDERON said:

It's part of the "Small teams should exist to make the big teams better" thinking that drives the horrendous Colt team idea. 

He seems to be insinuating that part teams aren't 'trying hard enough'. He has no idea of the finances of these teams or what they mean to their fans. He seems to think that they could easily become full time teams with academies if only they tried that bit harder, as if it was a question of desire and work ethic rather than anything else.

His last line about artificial pitches is garbage tosser talk. Another opinion presented as arrogant fact backed up with absolutely nothing. Most folk who call them 'plastic pitches' can have their opinions on them discarded. It's usually a giveaway as to what they'll say.

[CALDERON]

3 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

 

He seems to be insinuating that part teams aren't 'trying hard enough'. He has no idea of the finances of these teams or what they mean to their fans. He seems to think that they could easily become full time teams with academies if only they tried that bit harder, as if it was a question of desire and work ethic rather than anything else.

His last line about artificial pitches is garbage tosser talk. Another opinion presented as arrogant fact backed up with absolutely nothing. Most folk who call them 'plastic pitches' can have their opinions on them discarded. It's usually a giveaway as to what they'll say.

If you listen to the Sportsound podcast, he then goes on to say that his favourite game of last season was St Johnstone vs Celtic in the cup - played on a horror show of a pitch.  Because the pitch added "drama"

He is essentially John Hughes now.  

[DA Baracus]

Just now, CALDERON said:

If you listen to the Sportsound podcast, he then goes on to say that his favourite game of last season was St Johnstone vs Celtic in the cup - played on a horror show of a pitch.  Because the pitch added "drama"

He is essentially John Hughes now.  

I have no intention of listening to that bitter twat, but that comment does not surprise me. 

Never go full Hughes!

[craigkillie]

On 24/05/2020 at 16:07, Shadwell Dog said:

Has Doncaster been in contact with sky yet to reorganise the tv deal for this season?Surely the simple thing to do to bring in more cash is allow them to show every premier league game live especially as they'll be behind closed doors anyway.  At the moment they show what 40 odd so every game should commend a decent fee and of course you would discount it a bit for the games missed at the end of last season. Means everyone gets more cash and would reduce the losses the top flight clubs would face playing in front of empty stadiums.  Seems a no brainer to me.

 

It seems unlikely to me that Sky would be interested in showing a lot of these games - it's not going to be worth it for them to put on the production for the potential audience that exists. They have already talked about virtual season tickets and using club streaming platforms to show these games as an extra source of income

 

 

10 hours ago, Hank von Hell said:

Why can't the Championship and perhaps lower leagues play at large bio-safe stadia such as Hampden and Murrayfield with crowds practicing social distancing?

Even in the Premiership with a capped capacity for the bigots - 10-15,000 at Murrayfield could still work safely. Those who cannot go can PPV.

Before you think I'm bonkers this is what they are pushing for in Australia in the NRL & AFL when they restart next month. 

 

5 hours ago, Hank von Hell said:

Is it though, maybe it's worth looking into.

For a club like Dunfermline your income I'd imagine is from crowds, hospitality and sponsorship. All of this could be accommodated in a Hampden Park which the SFA would have to lay on for nothing. Ian Maxwell said testing could be reduced to about 2K a week - with testing equipment on site and the costs spread amongst the clubs maybe even reduced further.

Add to that PPV streaming income and it's not that far off being affordable and surely better than being mothballed for a year  

 

The SPFL/SFA Joint Response group have already been talking about hub stadiums for once crowds are allowed to return. However, using Australia as an example isn't particularly relevant to this country since they were much less affected by coronavirus in the first place, and also because the NRL/AFL clubs are almost all based in suburbs of big cities and many of them already play their matches at these big stadiums anyway. Having 10,000 Old Firm fans travel to Edinburgh or 2,000 Dunfermline fans travel to Glasgow as you have suggested also presents its own problems.

 

[Shadwell Dog]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

 

It seems unlikely to me that Sky would be interested in showing a lot of these games - it's not going to be worth it for them to put on the production for the potential audience that exists. They have already talked about virtual season tickets and using club streaming platforms to show these games as an extra source of income

 

 

 

 

The SPFL/SFA Joint Response group have already been talking about hub stadiums for once crowds are allowed to return. However, using Australia as an example isn't particularly relevant to this country since they were much less affected by coronavirus in the first place, and also because the NRL/AFL clubs are almost all based in suburbs of big cities and many of them already play their matches at these big stadiums anyway. Having 10,000 Old Firm fans travel to Edinburgh or 2,000 Dunfermline fans travel to Glasgow as you have suggested also presents its own problems.

 

In places like norway and denmark they show every game live over a weekend and their tv audiences are probably smaller than ours. You would think someone would be interested in showing the other games if not sky. Could they not put it out to tender just like they normally do allowing sky and anyone else to bid for it?

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

7 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

He's not having a go at them for surviving, is he? He's having a go at them for not being professional.

He is still talking bollocks, obviously. Why would you expect an country of five million to have roughly 40% as many fully professional clubs as England (plus four of the biggest Welsh cities)? Their population must be 55 million.

I've always thought it is great that there are so many Scottish league clubs, relatively speaking, and all but a tiny percentage of Scots have a team within easy travelling distance.

The vast majority of teams accept that they won't be competing with the elite from Europe, or even Scotland, any time soon but they still evoke passionate support year in, year out and that's something to celebrate, not condescend like Strachan has done.

File next to "Scottish people are too short" in the Strachan List of Bullshit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_cups/4584934.stm

He has never got over this...……...

[craigkillie]

52 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

In places like norway and denmark they show every game live over a weekend and their tv audiences are probably smaller than ours. You would think someone would be interested in showing the other games if not sky. Could they not put it out to tender just like they normally do allowing sky and anyone else to bid for it?

Sky have exclusive rights for the Premiership, so they wouldn't be allowed to tender it to other companies. It's not even clear that, as it stands, clubs would be allowed to stream games live. In ordinary circumstances they certainly wouldn't be, but the hope is that whilst they are BCD it will be permitted as an exception.

Edited May 26, 2020 by craigkillie

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

Sky have exclusive rights for the Premiership, so they wouldn't be allowed to tender it to other companies. It's not even clear that, as it stands, clubs would be allowed to stream games live. In ordinary circumstances they certainly wouldn't be, but the hope is that whilst they are BCD it will be permitted as an exception.

Sky would need to be flexible surely at a time when if they're not then clubs could go to the wall. I'd hope that to avoid bad publicity the spfl would be able to sort out some kind of deal for one season only.  Will be interesting to see what happens when the epl starts up behind closed doors.