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Scotland's League One and Two could be off until JANUARY


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I don't buy the "selling them on" bit.  I thought that stopped being a thing in Scottish football in the 90s.
What prevents the bigger clubs from furloughing their players?
Premiership clubs still make a reasonably big chunk of income from player sales. In the last 4 seasons I make it that Killie have made nearly £4m from sales, and we have two Scotland internationals contracted right now who we'd be hoping to get about another £3m for in total.

The bigger clubs generally have furloughed their players - we definitely have - but I thought we were talking about what happens after furlough stops, which will probably be before football can come back properly.
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1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

The bigger clubs generally have furloughed their players - we definitely have - but I thought we were talking about what happens after furlough stops, which will probably be before football can come back properly.

We're definitely not a big club but we have a number of players (9 I think) with 12 months to run on their contracts.

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1 hour ago, Shadwell Dog said:

I'm sure in the likes of league one and two the fans could raise the majority of the money lost to the tv deal if push comes to shove.

You're sure of that are you?

Anyway, how did we get from increasing support for poorer teams to taking all the TV revenue they're currently entitled to and handing it to richer teams.

If you were captain on the Titanic, would you be shouting "women and children last"?

1 hour ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Try raising million pound plus though. It's not quite as easy.

Which team are we talking about here?  I'm guessing the combined league one and two share is currently about 6% - 1.8 million split between the other 22 teams is not going to be anything close to 1 million per team.  More like 90K per team.

 

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16 minutes ago, stuartcraig said:

You're sure of that are you?

Anyway, how did we get from increasing support for poorer teams to taking all the TV revenue they're currently entitled to and handing it to richer teams.

If you were captain on the Titanic, would you be shouting "women and children last"?

Which team are we talking about here?  I'm guessing the combined league one and two share is currently about 6% - 1.8 million split between the other 22 teams is not going to be anything close to 1 million per team.  More like 90K per team.

 

You've lost me here totally. I'm talking about there being no deal at all not giving the top flight cash. The talk was of the top flight playing on at a loss to ensure that the deal was kept in place and that the smaller clubs should be grateful to them for doing that.  I'm saying that most lower league clubs could manage fine having no tv deal as fans could raise the cash to cover most of it at our level. The top flight would be hit much harder though as a much larger amount of cash has to be covered. 1 million plus. Cant see fans raising that sort of amount.

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4 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

You've lost me here totally. I'm talking about there being no deal at all not giving the top flight cash. The talk was of the top flight playing on at a loss to ensure that the deal was kept in place and that the smaller clubs should be grateful to them for doing that.  I'm saying that most lower league clubs could manage fine having no tv deal as fans could raise the cash to cover most of it at our level. The top flight would be hit much harder though as a much larger amount of cash has to be covered. 1 million plus. Cant see fans raising that sort of amount.

You lost me 1st.  No one was currently suggesting that the revenue from the TV deal should be sacrificed by stopping clubs from playing.

As for viewing the current proposal as an act of altruism by Premiership clubs which is as much about supporting Scottish Football in general as it is about securing their own commercial interests, colour me unconvinced.

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6 minutes ago, stuartcraig said:

You lost me 1st.  No one was currently suggesting that the revenue from the TV deal should be sacrificed by stopping clubs from playing.

As for viewing the current proposal as an act of altruism by Premiership clubs which is as much about supporting Scottish Football in general as it is about securing their own commercial interests, colour me unconvinced.

I agree and that's what I was trying to say m8. 

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25 years ago when clubs were redeveloping stadia, there was a lot of money given out to help clubs in football trust grants.

i'm sure this was money from the pools companies. Does this pot of money still exist?

I know the pools is not as popular as it used to be, but are all those betting companies paying anything in to use our matches to bet on? If not, should they not be? 

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1 hour ago, Life on Marrs? said:

25 years ago when clubs were redeveloping stadia, there was a lot of money given out to help clubs in football trust grants.

i'm sure this was money from the pools companies. Does this pot of money still exist?

I know the pools is not as popular as it used to be, but are all those betting companies paying anything in to use our matches to bet on? If not, should they not be? 

The move in public spending to the national lottery killed off income to Littlewoods, Vernons and Zetters. That (surplus) money from football that wen back into the game now goes into 100,000,000 other good causes  instead.

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22 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Premiership clubs still make a reasonably big chunk of income from player sales. In the last 4 seasons I make it that Killie have made nearly £4m from sales, and we have two Scotland internationals contracted right now who we'd be hoping to get about another £3m for in total.

The bigger clubs generally have furloughed their players - we definitely have - but I thought we were talking about what happens after furlough stops, which will probably be before football can come back properly.

Are those two not heading into their last years contracts? Cant see you getting 3 million if that's the case.

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Top flight clubs should definitely play games behind closed doors, suffering six figure losses in the process, to protect a TV deal that will filter millions into the lower tiers. 

Top flight clubs, on top of suffering six figure losses to help preserve that deal, should also slash their own income from the TV deal to help lower league teams.

During this all the lower league teams should continue having the vast majority of their outgoings paid by the government, while suffering no losses through hosting games that will cost them money.

If top flight clubs dont agree to suffering seasonally losses which would likely hit seven figures, then they're all just self interested arseholes.

Folk who seem to think top flight clubs are sitting on mountains of gold and can afford seven figure losses over a season are absolutely at it.

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On 22/05/2020 at 09:46, craigkillie said:

Premiership clubs still make a reasonably big chunk of income from player sales. In the last 4 seasons I make it that Killie have made nearly £4m from sales, and we have two Scotland internationals contracted right now who we'd be hoping to get about another £3m for in total.

The bigger clubs generally have furloughed their players - we definitely have - but I thought we were talking about what happens after furlough stops, which will probably be before football can come back properly.

You think you’ll get £3m for Brophy and Findlay in the current climate ? What length of contract are they on ?

They might be worth running it down like O’Donnell chose to do.

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21 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

You think you’ll get £3m for Brophy and Findlay in the current climate ? What length of contract are they on ?

They might be worth running it down like O’Donnell chose to do.

They've both only got a year left currently.

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33 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Top flight clubs should definitely play games behind closed doors, suffering six figure losses in the process, to protect a TV deal that will filter millions into the lower tiers. 

Top flight clubs, on top of suffering six figure losses to help preserve that deal, should also slash their own income from the TV deal to help lower league teams.

During this all the lower league teams should continue having the vast majority of their outgoings paid by the government, while suffering no losses through hosting games that will cost them money.

If top flight clubs dont agree to suffering seasonally losses which would likely hit seven figures, then they're all just self interested arseholes.

Folk who seem to think top flight clubs are sitting on mountains of gold and can afford seven figure losses over a season are absolutely at it.

And yet, this nonsensical theory of Premier League clubs, in a collective attack of never-before-seen altruism, heroically battling on, playing behind closed doors and taking the financial hit for the greater good of preserving the precious Sky deal and the pittance that finds its way to League 1 and 2 clubs, has been expounded by precisely one poster. A Kilmarnock fan. Entertaining, if hopelessly misplaced wee rant nevertheless.

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35 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

You think you’ll get £3m for Brophy and Findlay in the current climate ? What length of contract are they on ?

They might be worth running it down like O’Donnell chose to do.

 

13 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

They've both only got a year left currently.

We got over £1m for May when he was in his final year.

Findlay and Brophy both have International caps while he didnt.

11 minutes ago, AGPar said:

And yet, this nonsensical theory of Premier League clubs, in a collective attack of never-before-seen altruism, heroically battling on, playing behind closed doors and taking the financial hit for the greater good of preserving the precious Sky deal and the pittance that finds its way to League 1 and 2 clubs, has been expounded by precisely one poster. A Kilmarnock fan. Entertaining, if hopelessly misplaced wee rant nevertheless.

Nobodies saying you should think that.

The point is that scrapping the TV deal entirely by forcing top flight clubs to stay idle if League One sides are, is a pointless exercise that costs everyone money. Just now League One/Two sides, who's only chance of survival might be mothballing and having minor outgoings, can survive if they still receive their cut of the TV deal. If you mothball these clubs and also remove the TV money, then theyd be aswell just closing up entirely, as wheres the income coming from?

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Nobodies saying you should think that.
The point is that scrapping the TV deal entirely by forcing top flight clubs to stay idle if League One sides are, is a pointless exercise that costs everyone money.


Catch up. Nobody is currently saying that.
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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

We got over £1m for May when he was in his final year.

Findlay and Brophy both have International caps while he didnt.

Nobodies saying you should think that.

The point is that scrapping the TV deal entirely by forcing top flight clubs to stay idle if League One sides are, is a pointless exercise that costs everyone money. Just now League One/Two sides, who's only chance of survival might be mothballing and having minor outgoings, can survive if they still receive their cut of the TV deal. If you mothball these clubs and also remove the TV money, then theyd be aswell just closing up entirely, as wheres the income coming from?

That wasnt in the current climate though. If you think  that anyone is going to spend millions of pounds on players (especially ones that will be available for nowt in a year)when there will be hundreds out there looking for jobs and whilst clubs finances are incredibly tight is just crazy if you ask me. I'd expect them to either go for a knockdown fee if killie get desperate or nowt once their contracts are done.

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6 minutes ago, stuartcraig said:

 


Catch up. Nobody is currently saying that.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Exactly. Who said that?

Its what will happen if you want to start, yet another, petty squabble vote over a redistribution of prize money. The current reconstruction vote is still ongoing, so if you're expecting a prize money vote to be cleared up within 2 months then you're deluded.

Still no idea why Premiership clubs, who will have full outgoings, and major losses, have to suffer all that to protect a TV deal, while also cutting their own prize money, simply to hand over more money to clubs who presumably will have almost no outgoings. Its fairly obvious the biggest financial losers if the top flight is forced to play on behind closed doors is the top flight sides, why is it suddenly a fair compromise to punish their players by forcing pay cuts/releases so top flight clubs dont go to the wall to help smaller clubs with no outgoings and wages paid by the government increase their income?

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34 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

We got over £1m for May when he was in his final year.

Findlay and Brophy both have International caps while he didnt.

Nobodies saying you should think that.

The point is that scrapping the TV deal entirely by forcing top flight clubs to stay idle if League One sides are, is a pointless exercise that costs everyone money. Just now League One/Two sides, who's only chance of survival might be mothballing and having minor outgoings, can survive if they still receive their cut of the TV deal. If you mothball these clubs and also remove the TV money, then theyd be aswell just closing up entirely, as wheres the income coming from?

Stevie May has as many caps as Findlay and Brophy ??

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