The Dundee United Thread 22/23

[ArabFC]

1 hour ago, Junior_Arab said:

I worry that Ogren has been led down the garden path by Asghar. He’s invested heavily in the academy which is great for the club, but the expectation seems to be that we see the results of that investment almost straight away, hence the rush to put kids in the team. It’ll be several years till we can expect to see the benefits of that investment and even then I think we’re far more likely to produce a handful of players capable of holding down a place in our first team squad than a string of guys we can sell on for millions for Ogren to see an actual return. Youth development is far from an exact science. 

Even if it was and we could pump out a Ryan Gauld every year, these days you're lucky to hang on to them long enough for them to gain any value.

How much did we get for Scott Banks or Harry Souttar?

Kerr Smith signed a deal with Premier League clubs apparently circling, but he didn't have to sign and it wouldn't take a large figure for him to depart anyway.

I'm not saying we shouldn't invest in youth, but is it going to make us rich? Doubt it!

[Pull My Strings]

I think folk are getting a bit carried away with the demands being placed on the Academy.  You don't have to sell on multiple players for millions of pounds to justify it. simply bringing through a couple of guys each year who can play for the first team consistently will go a long way to balancing the books at the club. If you can unearth the occasional gem who goes for a big fee then all the better but I think its wrong to assume that the entire model is predicated on rearing players to sell. The bread and butter of the academy should be rearing players to play for United.

[ArabianKnight]

9 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

I think folk are getting a bit carried away with the demands being placed on the Academy.  You don't have to sell on multiple players for millions of pounds to justify it. simply bringing through a couple of guys each year who can play for the first team consistently will go a long way to balancing the books at the club. If you can unearth the occasional gem who goes for a big fee then all the better but I think its wrong to assume that the entire model is predicated on rearing players to sell. The bread and butter of the academy should be rearing players to play for United.

This.

This is the main point folk miss or let the massive fee potential cloud their judgement. 

If you can produce first team talent consistently from the academy it saves you so much money when you aren't paying fees/higher wages for someone else. 

[Junior_Arab]

10 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

I think folk are getting a bit carried away with the demands being placed on the Academy.  You don't have to sell on multiple players for millions of pounds to justify it. simply bringing through a couple of guys each year who can play for the first team consistently will go a long way to balancing the books at the club. If you can unearth the occasional gem who goes for a big fee then all the better but I think its wrong to assume that the entire model is predicated on rearing players to sell. The bread and butter of the academy should be rearing players to play for United.

Realistically, yes, but Ogren hasn’t ploughed millions into the club for that. He wants his money back with interest. Eight Jamie Robson-types in the first team won’t do that for him. And these guys might save us money be being on lower wages (initially at least). But it’s not like we pay many transfer fees these days - it’s all loans and frees pretty much. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Junior_Arab

[Dundee Hibernian]

1 hour ago, Junior_Arab said:

Realistically, yes, but Ogren hasn’t ploughed millions into the club for that. He wants his money back with interest. Eight Jamie Robson-types in the first team won’t do that for him. And these guys might save us money be being on lower wages (initially at least). But it’s not like we pay many transfer fees these days - it’s all loans and frees pretty much. 

The players we are seeking to sign on 'frees' will be those that other clubs are looking at as well, I'd guess. Therefore these players will not only be looking for competitive wages, they'll also be expecting a favourable signing on fee.

The academy may save substantial sums on these free transfer signings, in an ideal world. I accept we don't live in that world, although the young players may go some way towards helping the club financially.

[hk blues]

16 hours ago, ArabianKnight said:

If you can produce first team talent consistently from the academy it saves you so much money when you aren't paying fees/higher wages for someone else. 

Up to a point, yes, but how often do fees get paid nowadays - it's not like the old days when every transfer involved a fee of some sort?   And, with agents etc these days you won't get away with paying the young lads under the going rate.  I still think you need to strike gold every few seasons to make such a strategy work.  That said I don't think it's a bad way to go but needs careful management and balancing to ensure the guys coming through have someone to learn from.

[ArabianKnight]

13 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Up to a point, yes, but how often do fees get paid nowadays - it's not like the old days when every transfer involved a fee of some sort?   And, with agents etc these days you won't get away with paying the young lads under the going rate.  I still think you need to strike gold every few seasons to make such a strategy work.  That said I don't think it's a bad way to go but needs careful management and balancing to ensure the guys coming through have someone to learn from.

Signing on fees and paying remainder of contracts is the norm these days I'd say. That's your outlay as a club at our level. 

[hk blues]

2 minutes ago, ArabianKnight said:

Signing on fees and paying remainder of contracts is the norm these days I'd say. That's your outlay as a club at our level. 

Out of interest, what would the optimum mix of experienced/"youth" players in a starting 11 be?  

[ArabianKnight]

4 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Out of interest, what would the optimum mix of experienced/"youth" players in a starting 11 be?  

Too many variables but it's easy to say that having an experienced CB talking a younger one alongside them through the game springs to mind. Any sort of midfield pairing would be similar. Skillful and technical players are easier to let loose and do their own thing. 

[Pull My Strings]

I'd be hoping for experienced former Academy players making up the bulk of the team in the longer term. That obviously will take a few years but I think that should be the ultimate goal.

[Aladdin]

One benefit of the vultures in England is that they dont think anything of throwing a few hundred thousand in compensation to a Scottish club for a promising young player.

If we have a steady conveyor belt (which there is no guarantee we ever will), if players are being blooded in the first team at 18/19 and getting some games under their belt, you dont need the one marquee transfer every few seasons.

[wardy83]

According to Daily Record Dundee have beaten us to the signing of Ayr wide man Luke McCowan

[An Arab In Qatar]

59 minutes ago, wardy83 said:

According to Daily Record Dundee have beaten us to the signing of Ayr wide man Luke McCowan

If true. You can’t really blame the laddie when he doesn’t know who his gaffer is going to be. I was going to say who is picking the team, but wanted to avoid the drama.

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, Pull My Strings said:

I'd be hoping for experienced former Academy players making up the bulk of the team in the longer term. That obviously will take a few years but I think that should be the ultimate goal.

There’s a lot of Fridays between now and then.

[Big Shedboy]

4 hours ago, An Arab In Qatar said:

If true. You can’t really blame the laddie when he doesn’t know who his gaffer is going to be. I was going to say who is picking the team, but wanted to avoid the drama.

I agree, however he'll probably have a new gaffer by October /November time 

[ArabianKnight]

Didn't see who they were speaking to but STV were just speaking to someone from United just a minute ago outside Gussie. 

[NewBlue]

Hello everyone. Peterhead are auctioning some items to support one of our players and also the mental health charity Back Onside. One lot that might interest you all:

 

'Auction Lot 1 Jim McInally's Dundee United's number four jersey from the 1987 UEFA Cup Final Second Leg against IFK Gothenburg, Jersey will be signed by Jim and other members of the Dundee United squad from that game. To place a bid on this item - you should email peterheadfcplayers@gmail.com with your bid which should be in sterling. The winner will be asked to pay for their item within 48 hours of the auction closing when the England and Scotland Euro 2020 Group Match kicks off at 8.00pm on Friday, June 18 2021'

 

[Derry Alli]

Which strips is Si Ferry auctioning? 

[NewBlue]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Which strips is Si Ferry auctioning? 

As far as I know it is his shirt from Swindon Town with the league champions patches.

[Guest Wieghortsnut]

2 hours ago, ArabianKnight said:

Didn't see who they were speaking to but STV were just speaking to someone from United just a minute ago outside Gussie. 

Hoolie