The Dundee United Thread 22/23

[mishtergrolsch]

4 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I’m sure there are clubs that do but it doesn’t mean they will be any more effective.

If a manager (coach) is failing it is an easy get out to claim it’s not his/her/their fault as it’s not their players.

For me the buck has to stop with the manager/coach and therefore they must have the power as well as the responsibility.

I prefer the more traditional model of a manager managing the transfers and first team affairs. Building a squad to play in the manner he wants and there's more accountability to one person.

I understand some folks argument of having a structure in place and having an almost interchangeable head coach but that means you're looking for someone that fits the clubs ethos and will buy into that way of working each time you hire. Sounds great but probably just as risky as a traditional set up. But when youve got a bloke like Asghar making the decisions and getting paid on top of a Head Coach and all the backroom staff etc...

Youre also discounting certain managers who won't work within this kind of structure when looking to hire too.

To be honest, it's all a bit pointless arguing because almost all managers / Head coaches will get punted within a year or two for being pish or not towing the party line.

[ArabFC]

5 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

For me the buck has to stop with the manager/coach and therefore they must have the power as well as the responsibility.

I just read Lee Wilkie in the Eve Tele going on about the job Mellon did and, I quote... "with someone else’s squad" 

We'll be onto our seventh manager since 2015 in a few weeks. How many managers had 'their own squad' assembled in that time? Maybe Neilson, maybe McKinnon?

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by ArabFC

[ArabFC]

14 minutes ago, mishtergrolsch said:

I understand some folks argument of having a structure in place and having an almost interchangeable head coach but that means you're looking for someone that fits the clubs ethos and will buy into that way of working each time you hire. Sounds great... YES, It does!

But when youve got a bloke like Asghar making the decisions... Well, quite!

I don't actually believe we have the people in place to make it work, but it the principle of opposition to it that grinds my gears.

All very...

"Why can't we just play 442?"

"I'm a man on both posts kinda guy"

"Zonal marking removes responsibility"

Lest we forget that Jim McLean was a visionary, a man well ahead of his time who revolutionised our club by thinking differently. I'm pretty sure even he wouldn't think a one man should control the club in the way he did back in the day.

Edited May 26, 2021 by ArabFC

[mishtergrolsch]

25 minutes ago, ArabFC said:

I don't actually believe we have the people in place to make it work, but it the principle of opposition to it that grinds my gears.

All very...

"Why can't we just play 442?"

"I'm a man on both posts kinda guy"

"Zonal marking removes responsibility"

Lest we forget that Jim McLean was a visionary, a man well ahead of his time who revolutionised our club by thinking differently. I'm pretty sure even he wouldn't think a one man should control the club in the way he did back in the day.

If the man was as good as McLean was then I wouldnt have a problem with him having full charge of everything. Including the pehs!

Football has changed since those days, its changed dramatically since Levein was our manager. But it dosent mean one way of doing things will work better than another as its a more modern way. What matters is you have a competent people making decisions all accross the club.

And as we know, we have Asghar at the helm of someone else's ship. And he's just sacked the captain he hired. A captain with a very good track record down south that he knew for years, researched, interviewed and paid money for before saying

"He's got buy in from the team and his staff. He's been really good by putting some of the young ones in. Where we are with the team, we're happy with" www.bbc.com/sport/football/53706032.amp)

less than a year ago.

[Granny Danger]

47 minutes ago, mishtergrolsch said:

I prefer the more traditional model of a manager managing the transfers and first team affairs. Building a squad to play in the manner he wants and there's more accountability to one person.

I understand some folks argument of having a structure in place and having an almost interchangeable head coach but that means you're looking for someone that fits the clubs ethos and will buy into that way of working each time you hire. Sounds great but probably just as risky as a traditional set up. But when youve got a bloke like Asghar making the decisions and getting paid on top of a Head Coach and all the backroom staff etc...

Youre also discounting certain managers who won't work within this kind of structure when looking to hire too.

To be honest, it's all a bit pointless arguing because almost all managers / Head coaches will get punted within a year or two for being pish or not towing the party line.

I’d be wary of any manager willing to take the job on the basis that someone else would pick the squad.

 

[Dundee Hibernian]

1 hour ago, mishtergrolsch said:

And as we know, we have Asghar at the helm of someone else's ship. And he's just sacked the captain he hired. A captain with a very good track record down south that he knew for years, researched, interviewed and paid money for before saying

"He's got buy in from the team and his staff. He's been really good by putting some of the young ones in. Where we are with the team, we're happy with" www.bbc.com/sport/football/53706032.amp)

less than a year ago.

Has he 'sacked the captain he hired' though? Is the parting of the ways statement from the club full of lies? It may well be, but I'd prefer to see what develops with Micky Mellon over the next few weeks before I join the witch hunt of Asghar. 

Presently, I tend towards believing that the parting of the ways was amicable, and that the Mellons are keen to return south, if they aren't already there.

[Granny Danger]

22 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Has he 'sacked the captain he hired' though? Is the parting of the ways statement from the club full of lies? It may well be, but I'd prefer to see what develops with Micky Mellon over the next few weeks before I join the witch hunt of Asghar. 

Presently, I tend towards believing that the parting of the ways was amicable, and that the Mellons are keen to return south, if they aren't already there.

I think “full of lies” is a bit strong.  I don’t think it would be unusual for a club to use terms like ‘mutual agreement’ even if it wasn’t strictly accurate.

[PartyFears2]

55 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Has he 'sacked the captain he hired' though? Is the parting of the ways statement from the club full of lies? 

Yeah. There was a falling out, I’m led to believe.  Mellon wasn’t willing to play the youngsters as much as he was expected to / told to. 
 

there’s a reason we are told how many Academy graduates are in the squad every 5 minutes. And that we are told the Academy is a massive success with little real proof of this. 
 

Looks like Courts has been earmarked for a while. Which begs the question, if he was viewed to take over at some point, why wasn’t he in the dugout all season learning from Mellon & Frail? 

[mishtergrolsch]

1 hour ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Has he 'sacked the captain he hired' though? Is the parting of the ways statement from the club full of lies? It may well be, but I'd prefer to see what develops with Micky Mellon over the next few weeks before I join the witch hunt of Asghar. 

Presently, I tend towards believing that the parting of the ways was amicable, and that the Mellons are keen to return south, if they aren't already there.

The rumours that have been going around for the last couple of months have suggested that the club are choking to flood the team with the brilliant youths we apparantly have coming through.

MM clearly didn't think they were ready to be relied on too heavily this season and hes been shuffled off so we can have a head coach that will do what he's told.

Fwiw id like to see more of the young guys next season but I fully understand why he went with the experienced pros, even if most of them were pish. Broadly speaking anyway.

There's some pish about "mutual agreements" and "amicable" blah blah but if he really wanted away he'd have resigned and the club would have made that clear.

[CaspianChris]

Away from sporting director dictators and farcical manager hunts a pre season friendly has been mentioned  

 

[Dundee Hibernian]

16 minutes ago, PartyFears2 said:

Yeah. There was a falling out, I’m led to believe.  Mellon wasn’t willing to play the youngsters as much as he was expected to / told to. 
 

there’s a reason we are told how many Academy graduates are in the squad every 5 minutes. And that we are told the Academy is a massive success with little real proof of this. 
 

Looks like Courts has been earmarked for a while. Which begs the question, if he was viewed to take over at some point, why wasn’t he in the dugout all season learning from Mellon & Frail? 

Fair enough, if you were led to believe this. Can I ask who gave you this information?

Just now, mishtergrolsch said:

The rumours that have been going around for the last couple of months have suggested that the club are choking to flood the team with the brilliant youths we apparantly have coming through.

MM clearly didn't think they were ready to be relied on too heavily this season and hes been shuffled off so we can have a head coach that will do what he's told.

Fwiw id like to see more of the young guys next season but I fully understand why he went with the experienced pros, even if most of them were pish. Broadly speaking anyway.

There's some pish about "mutual agreements" and "amicable" blah blah but if he really wanted away he'd have resigned and the club would have made that clear.

Again, you are starting by mentioning rumours. I'll wait to see how it pans out with Mellon. If he'd resigned he'd have been in breach of contract though. 

If I could give you what I've 'heard', the club and Mellon agreed he'd see out the season and see where both parties stood. He was unsettled and offered positions down south again. The club didn't want to stand in his way as they felt we should have done better this season, while blooding more young players.

As to the last part, I reckon it would have been more difficult to survive if we'd fielded a younger side, possibly as some of our better prospects were out on loan. So we agree in part. 

[Granny Danger]

Since we are all speculating:

Ogren thinks, or has been convinced by someone else to believe, that the only way he’s going to get back the money he’s sunk into United is by developing another crop of saleable assets like Gauld, Robertson, Armstrong and Ciftci.  That’s why he’s desperate for a manager/coach who will pursue this strategy or will be influenced by a DoF to pursue this strategy.

This means playing the youngsters in the hope that one or two will become money-making gems.

In the highly unlikely event that this works he will pocket the transfer fees and piss off; if it doesn’t he will reluctantly swallow the loss and piss off.

[Frank Grimes]

This is a bit tinpot from United, no?

[invergowrie arab]

22 minutes ago, CaspianChris said:

Away from sporting director dictators and farcical manager hunts a pre season friendly has been mentioned  

 

Not that i would be trailing to a kowp like Berwick to watch a friendly but they can double ram it after their OF Colts behaviour 

[Junior_Arab]

16 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Not that i would be trailing to a kowp like Berwick to watch a friendly but they can double ram it after their OF Colts behaviour 

Plus it’s a long way to go to watch us get pumped if the Courts rumours are true. 

[Fife Saint]

Sounds like the cash is about run out imo.

[PartyFears2]

52 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Fair enough, if you were led to believe this. Can I ask who gave you this information?

Again, you are starting by mentioning rumours. I'll wait to see how it pans out with Mellon. If he'd resigned he'd have been in breach of contract though. 

If I could give you what I've 'heard', the club and Mellon agreed he'd see out the season and see where both parties stood. He was unsettled and offered positions down south again. The club didn't want to stand in his way as they felt we should have done better this season, while blooding more young players.

As to the last part, I reckon it would have been more difficult to survive if we'd fielded a younger side, possibly as some of our better prospects were out on loan. So we agree in part. 

This came from an agent who works with Asghar. 

[Robin.Hood]

 

 

On 25/05/2021 at 12:25, Pull My Strings said:

Idiots reading idiots on message boards.

 

On 25/05/2021 at 12:30, Robin.Hood said:

Ah so it's just all made up? 

 

On 25/05/2021 at 12:31, Pull My Strings said:

Yes. By idiots.

Yet has an interview? Idiots on message boards indeed 

[invergowrie arab]

Interesting to see how Tony Asghar will react to being the main lightning rod when fans are back in the ground.

His social media output suggests it will be fun if nothing else 

[Derry Alli]

30 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Interesting to see how Tony Asghar will react to being the main lightning rod when fans are back in the ground.

He'll fucking love it because Tony will be the centre of attention.