The Dundee United Thread 22/23

[skinny arab]

Kerr Smith away to Villa in a deal worth up to £2m. Be interesting to see the structure of the deal and how much we are guaranteed to receive.

[Gibby82]

25 minutes ago, skinny arab said:

Kerr Smith away to Villa in a deal worth up to £2m. Be interesting to see the structure of the deal and how much we are guaranteed to receive.

On paper our fifth highest transfer fee? For a kid who’s played a dozen games. I find this cradle snatching distasteful and symptomatic of much of what is wrong with #modernfootball but f**k it for that fee I’m even willing to forgive Gerrard for the whole ‘Dundee’ thing.

[captainkev]

5 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I stand by my opinion of Seigrist, if posters looked back they'd see I've been critical of him in the past, equally I've praised him for his improvements. I'll be delighted if we get money for him this window, and doubt when we look back he'll have a better overall career than Szromnik or Kawashima, who, like Seigrist, didn't look great with the players who were in front of him in defence at particular times. 

Also, Carson is highly unlikely to be back at Tannadice, Eriksson is here to be the main keeper.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but that's a mad shout. Szromnik was a dreadful keeper and the fact that our whole team was absolute dross in 2015/16 shouldn't detract from that.

Siegrist, for all his initial flaws in his first season with us, has never looked close to the kind of liability Szromnik was.

[stewartyftd1]

Surely we can get Watt in this window and maybe push the boat out for a 6 month Shankland loan now we have pulled in all this dough from Villa?

[ArabianKnight]

That twitter video has the feel of a "spot the new player" but sadly there wasn't. 

[Desp]

1 hour ago, stewartyftd1 said:

Surely we can get Watt in this window and maybe push the boat out for a 6 month Shankland loan now we have pulled in all this dough from Villa?

Utd's desperation for a striker at the minute, plus receipt of a few quid from the Premier League, leaves you with quite a poor negotiating hand.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be best for all parties if Tony Watt left this month (realistically, we're both fighting to get into the same area of the league table so is Tony going to give absolutely everything in a Motherwell jersey?).  Given a league placing it worth about £120k (is that still the case?) you'd be looking for at least two places worth to make it a good deal for Motherwell.  It looks like we're trying to reinvest some of that in Zak Rudden from Partick as well.

Would Utd go as high as that for a player who they will get for nothing in the summer?

[ArabianKnight]

12 minutes ago, Desp said:

Utd's desperation for a striker at the minute, plus receipt of a few quid from the Premier League, leaves you with quite a poor negotiating hand.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be best for all parties if Tony Watt left this month (realistically, we're both fighting to get into the same area of the league table so is Tony going to give absolutely everything in a Motherwell jersey?).  Given a league placing it worth about £120k (is that still the case?) you'd be looking for at least two places worth to make it a good deal for Motherwell.  It looks like we're trying to reinvest some of that in Zak Rudden from Partick as well.

Would Utd go as high as that for a player who they will get for nothing in the summer?

Probably not and you'll be contending with us for Rudden as well

I think it's far more likely United use the cash for Shanks coming back rather than Watt. 

[Dundee Hibernian]

1 hour ago, captainkev said:

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but that's a mad shout. Szromnik was a dreadful keeper and the fact that our whole team was absolute dross in 2015/16 shouldn't detract from that.

Siegrist, for all his initial flaws in his first season with us, has never looked close to the kind of liability Szromnik was.

I don't think it is.

Szromnik was 21 when he joined United, Seigrist 26. In the Premiership, Szromnik played 14 games, and conceded an average of 1.4 per match, while Seigrist has an average of 1.2 over 47 Premiership matches. The Polish keeper never got a consistent run but when he did he'd see Mark Durnan or Coll Donaldson as his centre backs. Seigrist has Edwards and Connolly/Reynolds (!) and this season Mulgrew. 

Given the statistics, and the defensive players available to each, Szromnik wasn't as bad as some make out. He's been at Slask Wroclaw for 2 seasons and helped them into Europe last term, and has made the majority of goalkeeper appearances this season at the club. 

[mishtergrolsch]

2 minutes ago, Desp said:

Utd's desperation for a striker at the minute, plus receipt of a few quid from the Premier League, leaves you with quite a poor negotiating hand.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be best for all parties if Tony Watt left this month (realistically, we're both fighting to get into the same area of the league table so is Tony going to give absolutely everything in a Motherwell jersey?).  Given a league placing it worth about £120k (is that still the case?) you'd be looking for at least two places worth to make it a good deal for Motherwell.  It looks like we're trying to reinvest some of that in Zak Rudden from Partick as well.

Would Utd go as high as that for a player who they will get for nothing in the summer?

Imo they should absolutely not pay anything more than a nominal fee imo. Which won't happen and 'Well are quite right to be squeezing as much out of us as possible.

But with young Kerr(ching) being sold for mental money id like to see another forward come in with McNulty being cut loose. Be that Shankland or an unknown forward with sell on potential if any good.

[stewartyftd1]

48 minutes ago, Desp said:

Utd's desperation for a striker at the minute, plus receipt of a few quid from the Premier League, leaves you with quite a poor negotiating hand.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be best for all parties if Tony Watt left this month (realistically, we're both fighting to get into the same area of the league table so is Tony going to give absolutely everything in a Motherwell jersey?).  Given a league placing it worth about £120k (is that still the case?) you'd be looking for at least two places worth to make it a good deal for Motherwell.  It looks like we're trying to reinvest some of that in Zak Rudden from Partick as well.

Would Utd go as high as that for a player who they will get for nothing in the summer?

200K would do it I think. Hopefully use some to cover majority of Shanks wages for 6 months too.

[Sarto Mutiny]

I'm not convinced of the merits of spending £200k to get a player for half a season before he joins us for nothing, I must say. If that sort of money is actually available to bring players in, I think it could be better spent.

[Desp]

34 minutes ago, stewartyftd1 said:

200K would do it I think. Hopefully use some to cover majority of Shanks wages for 6 months too.

I think you're right. 

31 minutes ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

I'm not convinced of the merits of spending £200k to get a player for half a season before he joins us for nothing, I must say. If that sort of money is actually available to bring players in, I think it could be better spent.

I also think you're right...

[ArabFC]

30 minutes ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

I'm not convinced of the merits of spending £200k to get a player for half a season before he joins us for nothing, I must say. If that sort of money is actually available to bring players in, I think it could be better spent.

You don't need to be convinced - the idea is mental!

It's the equivalent of paying an extra £10k for every game he could play. We could pay Shankland's wages with that 

[mishtergrolsch]

59 minutes ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

I'm not convinced of the merits of spending £200k to get a player for half a season before he joins us for nothing, I must say. If that sort of money is actually available to bring players in, I think it could be better spent.

If we pay anything north of 50k id be seriously questioning Tony even more than I already do.

As I said earlier, we should be bringing in another forward, either Shankland if possible etc etc or some other forward to challenge Watt / replace Clark and getting shot of McNulty.

Ideally sign someone different to what we have, a target man or a seriously pacey type.

Spending £200k is verging on irresponsible for a guy we have literally signed up for next season for free.

[Dunfermline Arab]

If we ARE the only club Shanks is able to play for, I'd expect it to be a formality. Theres no smoke without fire and Beerschot must wantschot of him. 

I still think United will offer Nicky Clarke for Watt. They have a target man in Van Veen and Clarke could no doubt knock in a few goals for Well. 

Shanks can't come in without someone else going (striker wise) so it's either Biamou (queue the 'some things just don't work out in football' comment from Tam), McNulty (same comment) or Clarke. I think Clarke is someone who has been played because he's been the only option, not because United see him as a starter. 

[Dundee Hibernian]

Notice that Shankland doesn't appear to have travelled to Spain with Beerschot for their winter camp. He certainly didn't play in any of their matches, in which 22 players were used, this backing the stories of him perhaps being back in Scotland. Oh aye, and Beerschot signed Felipe Avenatti, a striker on loan, a few days ago: he also played in the Spanish friendlies.

2+2=5.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Dundee Hibernian

[dundeeunited83]

15 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Notice that Shankland doesn't appear to have travelled to Spain with Beerschot for their winter camp. He certainly didn't play in any of their matches, in which 22 players were used, this backing the stories of him perhaps being back in Scotland. Oh aye, and Beerschot signed Felipe Avenatti, a striker on loan, a few days ago: he also played in the Spanish friendlies.

2+2=5.

He’s got covid

[Loemba90]

Should absolutely not be paying £200k for a guy who’s joining for nothing in 5 months time!

Should definitely be asking the question re Shankland and if it’s a no then offer £50k take it or leave it for Watt and then move on and sign someone else either short term or someone like Rudden (though not necessarily him) who can be here long term and hopefully improve.

 

The money for Smith sounds pretty decent but it’s important we don’t just go daft spunking it on unnecessary signings.

[Pull My Strings]

The £200k appears to simply be a figure plucked out of thin air. Reports a couple of days ago that Motherwell were looking for £100k. That's still a decent whack for a guy who will be signing without a fee in the summer but not excessive, imo, in the greater scheme of things. You'd more than make that back in league placing prize money if his signing leads to an extra half a dozen goals between now and the end of the season.

You wouldn't get excited about getting a fee of £200k for a player on the way out and I'd certainly be wanting more than that if Benji or Fuchs, for example, were to be leaving six months early.

[capt_oats]

19 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

The £200k appears to simply be a figure plucked out of thin air. Reports a couple of days ago that Motherwell were looking for £100k. That's still a decent whack for a guy who will be signing without a fee in the summer but not excessive, imo, in the greater scheme of things. You'd more than make that back in league placing prize money if his signing leads to an extra half a dozen goals between now and the end of the season.

You wouldn't get excited about getting a fee of £200k for a player on the way out and I'd certainly be wanting more than that if Benji or Fuchs, for example, were to be leaving six months early.

The £100k was also just plucked from thin air. It seemed to be United fans on Twitter reading the 'six figure fee' that was being reported and rounding down as far as possible. I mean, £999,999 is also a 6 figure fee.

Your point about making that money back (£100k) is also precisely why it's unlikely that would be a figure that would be enough to incentivise Motherwell to sell. We're not in the position where we'd be falling over ourselves for £100k and handing over our top scorer to a direct rival would be an obvious risk to our league placing.

As Alexander was saying in the press the other day any fee would have a premium.

Quote

"Alan’s been upfront with them [United] and painted the picture for what it is, which is that we’re in no rush to let Tony go. He’s under contract until the summer and he’s the top scorer in the Premiership. 

If anyone wants to take him away this month then there’s a premium to pay and that’s the same for every player at the club."

Link

To put it into context, when Moult agreed to move to Preston with 6 months left on his deal he eventually went in the January for £500k.

Are United going to offer us £500k for Tony Watt? Probably not but the principle is the same, it would have to be an amount that would justify us selling.

Edited January 11, 2022 by capt_oats