The Dundee United Thread 22/23

[Sarto Mutiny]

Ryan Edwards has fallen off a cliff this season. He was very good for the majority of last season, but the deterioration in his form since then has been almost unbelievable. Plus he has absolutely chucked it on more than one occasion. 

Bet he looks shit hot at Hearts next year. The p***k.

[Phillips455]

1 hour ago, mishtergrolsch said:

Absolute refusal from the morons in the recruitment team to replace any defensive midfielder that's left over the past nearly 2 years, particularly Fuchs and Butcher.

Yeah, just look at the difference in our squad and predicament (Motherwell) after we got Butcher in and a new manager. He's been a missing piece to our squad mentality and I would have bet United would have signed hm up again but I wonder how he somehow got his Burton contract terminated mid way through.

[captainkev]

44 minutes ago, Steven W said:

That game tonight summed up our season. Can't defend and can't score goals.

Edwards will rightly get pelters, but Fletcher is just as culpable. Got to put some of those chances away 

Definitely the case tonight. In some games recently he's had a thankless task as we've barely got the ball anywhere near him I the box. This evening he was far too wasteful given how dire our situation is.

[Pull My Strings]

56 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

Yeah, just look at the difference in our squad and predicament (Motherwell) after we got Butcher in and a new manager. He's been a missing piece to our squad mentality and I would have bet United would have signed hm up again but I wonder how he somehow got his Burton contract terminated mid way through.

He was punted by United for off the field stuff. I don’t think he was ever likely to be welcome back.

[ArabianKnight]

Ayina Graham McMann 

Till the end of the season. I don't care if they make mistakes at least they'll learn from them.

Get directly to the fucking sea Edwards and Mulgrew. Thanking you for your services but that's it you are done here.

 

 

 

[mishtergrolsch]

10 hours ago, Phillips455 said:

Yeah, just look at the difference in our squad and predicament (Motherwell) after we got Butcher in and a new manager. He's been a missing piece to our squad mentality and I would have bet United would have signed hm up again but I wonder how he somehow got his Burton contract terminated mid way through.

I think we would have taken him back if he hadn't pumped the wives of teammates. 

Allegedly. 

I think that's what it was anyway. No chance he'd be back. 

[Phillips455]

16 minutes ago, mishtergrolsch said:

I think we would have taken him back if he hadn't pumped the wives of teammates. 

Allegedly. 

I think that's what it was anyway. No chance he'd be back. 

 

9 hours ago, Pull My Strings said:

He was punted by United for off the field stuff. I don’t think he was ever likely to be welcome back.

Ah. I wasn't actually aware of that.

[SGMilne]

Warning: I've read it back and this is a bit rambling, so forgive me


I understand why Goodwin fielded the team that he did last night because if he wanted everyone to have a fresh start then he had to play his captain and his player/coach. That's fair enough, but the measure of him will be if he learns from what they delivered.

 

You can't play Edwards and Mulgrew together ever again. In a two, they both get exposed and in a three, the man out to the side - Edwards - gets exposed. Neither can cope with anyone running at them and it results in goals conceded.

If Edwards had been the man in the middle, his performance would probably have been ok because he wouldn't have been exposed like that.

Mulgrew can play in a back 4 - he did ok with Ayina against Saints other than his part in that goal - but Edwards can't. Edwards can only play if he's the central man in a back three. 

So for me, that's the end of the road for Edwards barring any injury crisis.

The other major tactical change that's required - and Goodwin hinted at this in his post match interview - is that someone with legs needs to play alongside Fletcher. I thought Fletcher gave everything last night, and though he should have scored, I can understand why he didn't, considering how rare it is that he's been given opportunities in front of goal recently. 

People seem angry that a guy who has largely stuck to a 1 goal in 4 games scoring record throughout his career has scored pretty much 1 goal every 4 games for us. If United signed him to score goals then it shows how incompetent our recruitment team is. Oh...wait

He's up there to win headers and to flick it on to someone else. That's what he brings. We need Anuka playing off him.

Barring individual errors, I was impressed with the team last night in as much as they worked hard, closed Aberdeen players down and gave as much as they could. As Goodwin said, giving everything is the bare minimum you should expect out of the team though, so maybe I shouldn't be impressed? It's just night and day compared to what we got under Fox.

The other thing that impressed me was that we showed some urgency and directness. Instead of stopping and passing sideways or backwards, crosses went into the box and passes went in front of the receiver to run on to. Again, basic stuff, but an improvement.

But it'll count for nothing if we ship goals at one end and spurn opportunities at the other.#

Is there a magic formula of players on our books that will do that? I'm just not sure.

It all comes down to what a horrendous job Revolution GSC and in particular Tony Asghar and Sean McGee have done with recruitment. Fair enough, individually, most of the players we've signed are good players and if we're honest, most of us prior to mid-August looked at the signings individually and thought "ok, fair enough". As individuals, each of them - barring the goalkeeper - would be welcomed into most other Premiership squads. Even the worst ones like Liam Smith are being touted for moves to St. Johnstone etc.

But together, they amount to one of the worst teams/squads ever assembled. 

• Bad Goalkeeper x2
• Slow centre backs x3
• Fullbacks who can't stop crosses x2
• Wingbacks who are not natural defenders x3
• Moderately skillful attacking midfielders with little to no pace who would ideally be played just behind the striker x12
• Established forward - was x3, now x1

Attributes missing

• Pace (in any position)
• Willingness to run at players (Only Pawlett, Niskanen and Behic)
• Tackling in midfield
• Centre back with any acceleration (maybe Ayina?)
• Wingers

Look at how many of the same player we have in midfield, and that includes players we've put out on loan. Harkes, Djoum, Levitt, Pawlett, Sibbald, Meekison, Fotheringham, Chalmers, Mochrie, Glass, McGrath and Middleton are, by and large, the same player in terms of profile. They don't have much pace, they would be best played centrally in a 4-2-3-1, they can't tackle or break up play effectively and with the exception of Pawlett, they aren't comfortable running at players.  None of them are wingers, none of them are strikers and none of them can play that anchor role in midfield. How we have ended up with so many of the same player astounds me, especially considering we've had to put so many of these guys out on loan at various points. Next season, relegated or not, we'll still have 9 of them on the books (although Fotheringam will get a new contract) as well.

So how do you make a team out of that?

Is it that you go...

GK: Hamid (when he gets here)

DC: Ayina
DC: Mulgrew
DC: McMann

WBL: Behic
WBR: Niskanen

MC: Pawlett
MC: Harkes
MC: Sibbald

ST: Fletcher
ST: Anaku/Middleton

I'm not sure where certain players like McGrath or Levitt fit into that, but I'm at the point where Harkes and Pawlett seem the better options, and they were guys who we needed to replace and improve upon this time last year.

I'm struggling to see how we get out of the mess we're in with the players we have, and whether we stay up or go down, the fact that so few of our players are out of contract (Edwards, Smith, McGrath and Harkes I think are the only full 1st team squad members who are coming to the end of their deals) it's going to be a very costly process making it any better for next season either.

And yet all eyes are on Jim Goodwin to sort it...
 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by SGMilne

[Granny Danger]

Gooodwin’s team selection and tactics for the game against Livi will give a strong indication if he’s the guy to help us avoid relegation, or at least automatic relegation.

[Shadow Play]

10 hours ago, ArabianKnight said:

Ayina Graham McMann 

Till the end of the season. I don't care if they make mistakes at least they'll learn from them.

Get directly to the fucking sea Edwards and Mulgrew. Thanking you for your services but that's it you are done here.

 

 

 

 

[Sarto Mutiny]

19 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Gooodwin’s team selection and tactics for the game against Livi will give a strong indication if he’s the guy to help us avoid relegation, or at least automatic relegation.

Yes. I hope he learns from last night. 

I feel a lot of the criticism of Fletcher is a bit OTT, he has never been a clinical striker and he put in a shift at least, which is more than a lot of his team mates have done. As SGMilne said, he was probably surprised to actually be on the end of good chances for the first time this season.

[DUFC_]

Edwards is out of contract on May 31st and clearly cutting his losses. Was he even that good in the first place tho? I mean dont get me wrong im critically aware of our level but the guy had very average career run in ELF League One the three seasons before he arrived (Plymouth 7th, Plymouth 21st (relegated), Blackpool 13th).

Players OOC in May - Pawlett, Edwards, Smith, Harkes, Newman, Fotheringham, McGrath (loan), Ayina (loan).

Birighetti's got another year....

 

[DUFC_]

33 minutes ago, SGMilne said:

Is there a magic formula of players on our books that will do that? I'm just not sure.

It all comes down to what a horrendous job Revolution GSC and in particular Tony Asghar and Sean McGee have done with recruitment. Fair enough, individually, most of the players we've signed are good players and if we're honest, most of us prior to mid-August looked at the signings individually and thought "ok, fair enough". As individuals, each of them - barring the goalkeeper - would be welcomed into most other Premiership squads. Even the worst ones like Liam Smith are being touted for moves to St. Johnstone etc.

Honestly never understood just how poorly we did in the transfer market under these people. We train in St. Andrews, seven golf courses. Dundee is not a bad place to live if you are on a reasonable salary, there are worse places for sure. They did implement a ban on staying outside the area and travelling in for training/games, wonder if thats binned.

[SGMilne]

1 minute ago, DUFC_ said:

Honestly never understood just how poorly we did in the transfer market under these people. We train in St. Andrews, seven golf courses. Dundee is not a bad place to live if you are on a reasonable salary, there are worse places for sure. They did implement a ban on staying outside the area and travelling in for training/games, wonder if thats binned.

There's been a lot of criticism of us using a data-driven approach, but actually, that's not a problem is people use the data correctly.

Sadly, we haven't had that for some time.

Quite simply, we've got people who have no place in recruitment in charge of recruitment.

[Sarto Mutiny]

1 minute ago, SGMilne said:

There's been a lot of criticism of us using a data-driven approach, but actually, that's not a problem is people use the data correctly.

Sadly, we haven't had that for some time.

Quite simply, we've got people who have no place in recruitment in charge of recruitment.

Exactly this. Brighton, for example, use a data driven approach for signings, and do so successfully. It's not the idea that's the problem, but the implementation.

[Zetterlund]

On 04/03/2023 at 09:34, Richey Edwards said:

Remember the old CM games you could play with eleven outfield players if you wanted?

You would lose about 15-0, but you could play without a keeper.

Occasionally I'd accidentally put an outfield player in goal and not realise until after the game. It didn't seem to affect results much so maybe this is the answer.

[skinny arab]

Wasn’t particularly enamoured with the appointment of Goodwin (partly due to hoping Levein was coming back to oversee mass changes at the club) but there was a definite improvement last night and I thought his post match interview was very good, a refreshingly honest assessment of individual mistakes costing us along with a lack of a killer touch in front of goal and I liked him saying that while you could see the effort the players put in he wouldn’t praise them for doing so as that should be an absolute minimum for any professional player. 
 

Agree with others that his next team selection will be interesting but the problem there is we’re not blessed with many options thanks to a farcical transfer window which I believe will ultimately be responsible for our relegation. Edwards was appalling last night and looks absolutely shot of confidence but who replaces him, Smith who has been dreadful also recently or the 19 year old who had 30 minutes first team football and managed to get sent off in his first ever start at a professional level. In midfield if we take out Levitt for not tracking runners do we then bring in Djoum to not track runners and up front it’s clear that Fletcher would benefit from having a strike partner (Watt or Clark?) but the only options are a young prospect just turned 17 and a novice from Uganda.

 

Despite the above Motherwell have shown that a couple of good results make a huge difference and I have more faith in Goodwin getting something out of this team than I did under Fox bad sadly I fear we are doomed thanks to those in charge of player recruitment. 

[Mark Connolly]

I know there were loads of reasons for him leaving, but seeing Trevor Carson playing for St Mirren while we've had to deal with the Funboy 3 in goals this season is utterly rage inducing

[RandomGuy.]

16 hours ago, mishtergrolsch said:

3. Absolute joke decision to let two strikers leave and replace with...well...nobody really. Leaving us with an aging striker that can't score, a lad were flogging asap and some other young guys that aren't near ready

By most accounts we paid at least £80k for Clark, plus gave him a 3yr deal to become one of our highest ever earners, so its maybe not a huge surprise he moved.

Your issue is more not replacing him.

[Shadow Play]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

By most accounts we paid at least £80k for Clark, plus gave him a 3yr deal to become one of our highest ever earners, so its maybe not a huge surprise he moved.

Your issue is more not replacing him.

I don’t think Clark was sold to make or save money, particularly when just 6 months earlier Jack Ross was brought onboard for (if rumours are correct) and eye watering annual salary.  Clearly there was plenty of money at that point.  It would be strange if less than 6 months later the financial position had changed significantly. 

I know you’ve said Clark is now one of your highest earners but St Johnstone are well known for being fiscally responsible (that is a genuine compliment to St Johnstone) but did Clark increase his salary be joining St Johnstone or was it for a drop in pay?