Zoomer Brown Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 57 minutes ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said: Nothing else to say on the matter, be like booting a half dead sheep lying on the road. All the best, and good luck with the fun times ahead. Thank you. any chance of a len of your bucket and your bairns bankie? Thank You. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I didnt mind Ogren. Seemed like an alright guy. And i really want to like him. But that interview has pissed me off. The biggest issue is he's being too loyal to Asghar and Fox here and that's going to be what kills any good will he had with fans. The football hasn't improved since promotion. It's gotten worse. We're most likely going to finish bottom (or 11th if we're lucky) unless something changes. I dont care what anyone says, the playing side is the most important thing to a football club. Win games, fans happy, fans spend more money. Players sold. You can scoop it up. Please don't sit there and say "it's easy to bury our head in the sand" then say you're not going to make any changes to any staff while also saying there's no one more disappointed than you. Because there are clearly thousands of fans far more upset than you. You are burying your head in the sand by not acting and making changes, backing a guy who's built this wildly unbalanced team that's rooted to the bottom and picked managers who've failed. Thousands of people are spending cash during a cost of living crisis to travel around the county to watch a goalie that can't kick a ball or fall in the general direction of a football, a defence that can't stop crosses or pass forwards, a midfield that's like a seive etc etc All constructed by two blokes you're backing. If Fox goes, then Tony picks the next guy. He's picked the last f**k knows how many managers who've either been shite, bailed at the first chance or both. Faith in him has gone (I've never had much, if any, in him). We're broadly just fed up at this point and we're looking to you as the boss to change things. Please don't ask us to blindly support and cheer on a team of highly paid professionals that have consistently failed to do the basics of their job. Don't ask us to cheer on a team that were so bad people accused them of downing tools for a manager when fans were paying to watch. Dont ask us to back a manager that clearly has no idea how to change a game. Don't ask us to chuck money at a sinking ship when you aren't anymore. It's insulting. Sorry, a bit of an incoherent ramble folks but while I appreciate him taking time to speak to fans, that's a Mark Birighitti of a video and I'm just fucking done now. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannadeechee Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, mishtergrolsch said: I didnt mind Ogren. Seemed like an alright guy. And i really want to like him. But that interview has pissed me off. The biggest issue is he's being too loyal to Asghar and Fox here and that's going to be what kills any good will he had with fans. The football hasn't improved since promotion. It's gotten worse. We're most likely going to finish bottom (or 11th if we're lucky) unless something changes. I dont care what anyone says, the playing side is the most important thing to a football club. Win games, fans happy, fans spend more money. Players sold. You can scoop it up. Please don't sit there and say "it's easy to bury our head in the sand" then say you're not going to make any changes to any staff while also saying there's no one more disappointed than you. Because there are clearly thousands of fans far more upset than you. You are burying your head in the sand by not acting and making changes, backing a guy who's built this wildly unbalanced team that's rooted to the bottom and picked managers who've failed. Thousands of people are spending cash during a cost of living crisis to travel around the county to watch a goalie that can't kick a ball or fall in the general direction of a football, a defence that can't stop crosses or pass forwards, a midfield that's like a seive etc etc All constructed by two blokes you're backing. If Fox goes, then Tony picks the next guy. He's picked the last f**k knows how many managers who've either been shite, bailed at the first chance or both. Faith in him has gone (I've never had much, if any, in him). We're broadly just fed up at this point and we're looking to you as the boss to change things. Please don't ask us to blindly support and cheer on a team of highly paid professionals that have consistently failed to do the basics of their job. Don't ask us to cheer on a team that were so bad people accused them of downing tools for a manager when fans were paying to watch. Dont ask us to back a manager that clearly has no idea how to change a game. Don't ask us to chuck money at a sinking ship when you aren't anymore. It's insulting. Sorry, a bit of an incoherent ramble folks but while I appreciate him taking time to speak to fans, that's a Mark Birighitti of a video and I'm just fucking done now. Couldn't have said it better myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB-Scotland Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Ogren seems like a good bloke, but we're in a situation where the chairman isn't a football man, and so he appears to have child-like faith in Asghar, someone who any other chairman would likely identify as at least a major part of the problem in our recruitment failures, thus nothing will change unless someone from outside the club manages to get through to him and explain how catastrophic it's been on that front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arab_joe Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 22/02/2023 at 00:58, mishtergrolsch said: I reckon Ogren is hurling the £13M to prove he's spent enough now. Which, IMO, is his own fucking fault for thinking he'll make money in Scottish Football outside of the two Glasgow arseholes. Or believing Asghar and Friends it could be done. The manager is useless. I missed this comment yesterday, but this is what I was trying to say - he made the decision to buy a Scottish football club on the wild premise that he was going to make a profit, and that is something he needs to take up with his advisors who, he claims, did such thorough due diligence (not least Mr Asghar who seems to have acted as a finder on the investment) - not with the fans. On the manager situation, this is likely an unpopular opinion but I am actually beginning to sympathise with Liam Fox. He was hired into a role that he clearly was not qualified or ready for (which is evidenced each week when he completely fails to make meaningful substitutions...), but he can hardly be blamed for that - it is down to the Chairman / Mr Asghar. He has then had the squad weakened before his eyes (now becoming clear that Clark and Watt were being taken off the wage bill, whatever the manager might have wanted - I don't believe for one second that Watt was sold because he didn't fit the system), but he can hardly be blamed for that - again that is down to the Chairman / Mr Asghar. 21 hours ago, Pull My Strings said: This rather pleased analysis suggests that the situation which we are in today was the inevitable denouement of Ogren's plan. Greenie for use of "denouement". 18 hours ago, K.T said: How’s his golf course outside St Andrews getting on? Another money pit, imo. I'd completely forgotten about that, but it transpires that Ogren's golf course development is going about as well as Mark Birighitti's career: Ogren walks away from resort construction. 5 hours ago, mishtergrolsch said: I didnt mind Ogren. Seemed like an alright guy. And i really want to like him. But that interview has pissed me off. I don't think that any Arabs I've spoken to dislike Ogren as an individual (the same cannot be said for Asghar...). He speaks well in that interview, as he always does - but the things that he says are becoming less and less believable. Combining the AGM and the interview, he has suggested that (a) he is not going to keep investing; but (b) if/when we are relegated we will bounce back from relegation at the first time of asking. I just don't see those two statements being compatible... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, arab_joe said: I missed this comment yesterday, but this is what I was trying to say - he made the decision to buy a Scottish football club on the wild premise that he was going to make a profit, and that is something he needs to take up with his advisors who, he claims, did such thorough due diligence (not least Mr Asghar who seems to have acted as a finder on the investment) - not with the fans. On the manager situation, this is likely an unpopular opinion but I am actually beginning to sympathise with Liam Fox. He was hired into a role that he clearly was not qualified or ready for (which is evidenced each week when he completely fails to make meaningful substitutions...), but he can hardly be blamed for that - it is down to the Chairman / Mr Asghar. He has then had the squad weakened before his eyes (now becoming clear that Clark and Watt were being taken off the wage bill, whatever the manager might have wanted - I don't believe for one second that Watt was sold because he didn't fit the system), but he can hardly be blamed for that - again that is down to the Chairman / Mr Asghar. Greenie for use of "denouement". I'd completely forgotten about that, but it transpires that Ogren's golf course development is going about as well as Mark Birighitti's career: Ogren walks away from resort construction. I don't think that any Arabs I've spoken to dislike Ogren as an individual (the same cannot be said for Asghar...). He speaks well in that interview, as he always does - but the things that he says are becoming less and less believable. Combining the AGM and the interview, he has suggested that (a) he is not going to keep investing; but (b) if/when we are relegated we will bounce back from relegation at the first time of asking. I just don't see those two statements being compatible... Looking at these particular parts, it's clear to see Mark Ogren is absolutely terrible at picking advisors / business partners!. He's probably claiming we'll be fine and will come back up etc because he's watching £13 million crash and burn and its a coping strategy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, RB-Scotland said: Ogren seems like a good bloke, but we're in a situation where the chairman isn't a football man, and so he appears to have child-like faith in Asghar, someone who any other chairman would likely identify as at least a major part of the problem in our recruitment failures, thus nothing will change unless someone from outside the club manages to get through to him and explain how catastrophic it's been on that front. From the outside looking in, looking at the past 5 appointments surely all bar the current incumbent would be viewed as a success in relative terms? I take Jack Ross out of that as his appointment turned out to be a disaster but who would've predicted that when he was appointed? For sure, the 3 before Ross perhaps left sooner than would have been expected but was that down to Asghar or just better opportunities opening up elsewhere? I think you only need to look up the street to see a better example of poor management recruitment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB-Scotland Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, hk blues said: From the outside looking in, looking at the past 5 appointments surely all bar the current incumbent would be viewed as a success in relative terms? I take Jack Ross out of that as his appointment turned out to be a disaster but who would've predicted that when he was appointed? For sure, the 3 before Ross perhaps left sooner than would have been expected but was that down to Asghar or just better opportunities opening up elsewhere? I think you only need to look up the street to see a better example of poor management recruitment. Aye, looking at it in those terms, I could see why an outsider would think things haven't been too bad; I was talking specifically about player recruitment, where there's been clear gaps that any casual observer could see that haven't been filled. This season, the lack of a striker(after punting Watt and Clark), a defensive mid and a mobile right-sided centre-back have largely been our undoing(along with the goalkeeping debacle, presumably down to poor or non-existent scouting before we signed the Biro). Last season, we would line up against bigger teams with both Fuchs and Butcher in the middle, the difference has been night-and-day with our current centre-mids, and it's dragged down the likes of Levitt due to how wildly imbalanced the team is. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 hours ago, hk blues said: From the outside looking in, looking at the past 5 appointments surely all bar the current incumbent would be viewed as a success in relative terms? I take Jack Ross out of that as his appointment turned out to be a disaster but who would've predicted that when he was appointed? For sure, the 3 before Ross perhaps left sooner than would have been expected but was that down to Asghar or just better opportunities opening up elsewhere? I think you only need to look up the street to see a better example of poor management recruitment. It's a fair point. Until this season, our league position has improved every year since Mark Ogren came in, so viewed in those very simple terms it's been a success. However, the crash and burn we are currently experiencing is probably going to undo all of that - if we go down, which is looking extremely likely now, at best we are back where we started. I don't blame the owner if he has decided to turn the tap off, like others I think he's been naive and poorly advised if he ever genuinely thought he could make money from this. I don't bear any ill will towards the manager either. It's not his fault he has been promoted to a level way above his actual ability. The problems are far higher and far deeper than Liam Fox. A better manager would help, but in truth it would just be a sticking plaster over a massive wound. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Remember when we all used to point and laugh at the Dees? we still do tbf, only now we also do the same with you boys. Must be a Dundee thing. Still think you'll just stay up even with those keepers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 hours ago, hk blues said: From the outside looking in, looking at the past 5 appointments surely all bar the current incumbent would be viewed as a success in relative terms? I take Jack Ross out of that as his appointment turned out to be a disaster but who would've predicted that when he was appointed? For sure, the 3 before Ross perhaps left sooner than would have been expected but was that down to Asghar or just better opportunities opening up elsewhere? I think you only need to look up the street to see a better example of poor management recruitment. It's not just been poor managerial recruitment though. It's been an inability to retain managers, and other backroom staff, who may have been considered to be doing a good job. When Ogren and Asghar arrived a huge amount of money was pumped into the infrastructure at the club (facilities, academy, coaching and analysis). One by one those improvements are being undone with (apparently) talented staff allowed to leave without being replaced. Money has been spunked on good players in some positions with no regard for building a balanced squad so we're able to field a team with includes internationals in some positions and laddies with less than half a dozen first team appearances in other positions. We've got injuries but no more than you would expect most clubs to carry but beneath those first team players there is nothing else in the squad of even moderately comparable ability. We've recruited two keepers who are both absolutely honking, a "promising" 19 year old centre half from the bottom of the English Championship who is miles away from being ready but is pitched in to the team because the only other right sided centre half in the entire squad is out. We've let good, solid players leave from all over the squad and made no effort to replace them. We're now in a position where one injury to a 35 year old would leave us with no strikers who have ever scored a senior goal in British football. The second choice centre forward is a boy who turned 17 a fortnight ago (and is in the process of being sold). None of these problems are the fault of Liam Fox who may be a promising coach and a decent guy (no idea) but has no managerial credentials to speak of beyond a calamitous spell 8 years ago in the outer reaches of the league. There is no balance, no options, no injury cover and no competition in the squad. It would be a fearsome task for an experienced manager but an almost impossible job for a rookie. But the owner doesn't have a clue why fans are so upset. It's a sorry state of affairs all over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Pull My Strings said: It's not just been poor managerial recruitment though. It's been an inability to retain managers... This would be my nagging doubt - as I said in my post 3 of the most recent jumped ship quicker than expected. On the face of it they went for a better offer but were the offers only more attractive because staying at Tannadice was not attractive? Who knows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 21/02/2023 at 20:58, mishtergrolsch said: Nicked this from another site. Sorry to bring the convo back to what happens on the pitch! I'm going to guess we didn't scout this keeper. I reckon Ogren is hurling the £13M to prove he's spent enough now. Which, IMO, is his own fucking fault for thinking he'll make money in Scottish Football outside of the two Glasgow arseholes. Or believing Asghar and Friends it could be done. Ultimately I can see us going straight down. The manager is useless. The squad is so badly constructed and devoid of confidence. The Sporting Director is fucking useless at picking managers and is the main reason we're in this mess. Looks like the rumours that no serious manager will work with him might have some traction as every manager we've had has ran away at the first chance. Even Tam. Tony is his guy because he either really does trust him or knows he can use him as a scapegoat as he knows a portion of the fans have never liked him. The whole situation is mental and now it seems like the only care is the business rather than the product on the pitch (from the comments I've seen in various places allegedly said at the AGM) which only points to one thing and its not up the way. Liquidation doesn't make sense (imo) to Ogren. Administration won't work as he owns the debt so he'll gain nothing from that (I think) so he's stuck here selling assets or selling the club to anyone for as much as he can get. The potential irony is we could be in a worse position to where we were when he came in as I can't see fans coming out to buy season tickets or merchandise etc in the numbers we did if we do go down. The 5 year plan, eh? So, basically, fucking BOOOOO I almost managed to avoid commenting on that clip but... fucking hell, that's an incredible goal to concede. I'd be investigating him for betting activity as I really can't explain that any other way. Possibly the worst goalkeeping I've ever seen at any adult level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Fingers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Sponsored walk? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The hill I will die on: we'd have been in a better position now if we hadn't sacked Jack Ross and replaced him with Fox. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUFC_ Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) "People always ask me, are you commited to this club? I'm absolutely commited to the club, I have put a lot of money into this club and wherever we end up we will address it and move on" Constantly bleating on about this money he has blown. Moving on would be the best thing he could ever do for DUFC. Simply cannot fathom how he thought he could make money out of this, its laughable tbh. Not the end of the world if we get relegated? get real, last time it was four years with better coaches and better structure. He is dillusional, he clearly does not understand football on any level. This would'nt be a huge issue if he just kept his trap shut and hired someone who actually understands football, recruitment and who people actually want to work under. People hit the nail on the head with the good staff we have seen leave behind the scenes, the facilities mean nothing without competent and able coaches and staff. Would add that I also dont blame Liam Fox, he has been dunked into an impossible position. The GK situation is just incredible. There are hundreds of free agents currently available, never at any point have there been so many professionals out of contract. To think he wouldnt sanction money to sign a third keeper for three months is just evidence of Ogren's total cluelessness. Lets also not forget they lost the Nike kit deal, or they trying to say Macron deals > Nike deals, gtfo all of them. Edited February 23, 2023 by DUFC_ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 45 minutes ago, ArabFC said: The hill I will die on: we'd have been in a better position now if we hadn't sacked Jack Ross and replaced him with Fox. This is almost certainly true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 52 minutes ago, ArabFC said: The hill I will die on: we'd have been in a better position now if we hadn't sacked Jack Ross and replaced him with Fox. Should have let Ross weed out the toxic players and have them train with the 18’s instead of going down the line of an expensive manager sacking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, hk blues said: This would be my nagging doubt - as I said in my post 3 of the most recent jumped ship quicker than expected. On the face of it they went for a better offer but were the offers only more attractive because staying at Tannadice was not attractive? Who knows. This is exactly what I've been thinking. Neilson on the face of it jumped at Hertz as he's a Hertz man. Fair enough. Bigger club etc. But really he'd started building something (I was not a fan of him so I'm not backtracking here) and had no intentions of seeing it through. Was probably on the motorway before we'd even had an official offer. McCulloch and Co. couldn't wait to go either. Mellon was a pal of Asghar or at least had some form of relationship with him - he was mutually consented after keeping us up with a championship squad + Shankland. Tam the bam was lucky to finish 4th and could have easily finished 10th. Bailed out to outer Mongolia or wherever at the first opportunity. Is it Asghar? Is it that they see the asset stripping on the horizon? Are they being asked to do as well the next season with a smaller budget or eith more kids who are miles away from being ready (which was a big criticismof Mellon)? f**k knows. Won't matter when we're on the way to Morton, Ayr or Patrick next season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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