The Dundee United Thread 22/23

[SGMilne]

2 hours ago, ArabFC said:

Didn’t he?

I know he said he didn’t, but what input did he actually have on transfers?

Listening to Sportsound before the game, Liam Fox was asked if he would’ve liked to have kept Nicky Clark and he responded… “That wasn’t up to me so I won’t answer that question.”

Maybe JR did want one but Fat Tony was making the call.

I think you've kinda summed up the disconnect or the distrust that exists between the supporters and the club there.

You heard Ross say he didn't, but you don't believe it. And that's a problem created by both parties. What is truth? In the last month or so we've had made up rumours of Jack Ross going after the Hearts game and Birighitti moving back to Australia that most people just believed. Tonight on Twitter I've been told by one guy that it is FACT that Liam Fox has "next to no influence in the dressing room" and is a "yes man". Maybe I'm wrong but chances are he knows it as FACT because he's read it in a WhatsApp group.

FWIW my understanding, from speaking to - among others in the game - someone who worked in recruitment at the club during the Ogren era is that the way the transfer system works at Tannadice is...

• The scouting team look for players
• They pass their recommendation on to Tony Asghar
• Asghar takes it to the manager who has final say on who does or does not get signed
• The manager can suggest players of his own (so Mellon wanted and got Edwards, in spite of reservations from the scouting team, and also turned down the chance to get Niskanen because he didn't rate him)

 

[invergowrie arab]

By the 9th or 10th time Edwards was given a short goal kick to take 90 seconds to pass to a fellow defender, to pass to a wide man to immediately pass back to a defender I was actually getting embarrassed for them.

Why do we play such a low tempo? Is this how we train and Fox's game plan?

If Levitt is going to sit alongside the centre half's then at least give him the ball short to try and pick a pass.

Harkes - never shows for it and when he gets it does nothing.

Behic - everything back where it came from

Niskanen - on about 10 minutes and still managed to have a nightmare. 

I'll probably forgive Edwards as his task to craft our attacks is a fucking nonsense.

[ArabFC]

7 hours ago, SGMilne said:

I think you've kinda summed up the disconnect or the distrust that exists between the supporters and the club there.

You heard Ross say he didn't, but you don't believe it. And that's a problem created by both parties. What is truth? In the last month or so we've had made up rumours of Jack Ross going after the Hearts game and Birighitti moving back to Australia that most people just believed. Tonight on Twitter I've been told by one guy that it is FACT that Liam Fox has "next to no influence in the dressing room" and is a "yes man". Maybe I'm wrong but chances are he knows it as FACT because he's read it in a WhatsApp group.

FWIW my understanding, from speaking to - among others in the game - someone who worked in recruitment at the club during the Ogren era is that the way the transfer system works at Tannadice is...

• The scouting team look for players
• They pass their recommendation on to Tony Asghar
• Asghar takes it to the manager who has final say on who does or does not get signed
• The manager can suggest players of his own (so Mellon wanted and got Edwards, in spite of reservations from the scouting team, and also turned down the chance to get Niskanen because he didn't rate him)

I have no idea what’s going on with recruitment- that’s what pisses me off, but if the manager has the final say, why was Clark released when we had no manager?

[SGMilne]

18 minutes ago, ArabFC said:

I have no idea what’s going on with recruitment- that’s what pisses me off, but if the manager has the final say, why was Clark released when we had no manager?

Presumably in the absence of a manager, a bid came in and an opportunity to sell a guy who was on a high wage and was likely already earmarked to leave came in, so they accepted it?

[ArabFC]

That was obviously what they did, but again, earmarked to leave by who? Ashgar?

Fox was caretaker - they were obviously considering him for the job full-time, but they moved Clark on anyway. And brought in another forward.

Im not even suggesting there’s anything wrong with this - it’s always made sense to me that clubs shouldn’t devolve all transfer decisions to managers that are often around for a year, or less.

The point is decisions are clearly being made without a manager, so I doubt JR had the freedom most appear to presume.

Had he always had his eye on the two Aussies for example?

I as a fan would just like the club to be honest about the decision making structure.

[Granny Danger]

11 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

By the 9th or 10th time Edwards was given a short goal kick to take 90 seconds to pass to a fellow defender, to pass to a wide man to immediately pass back to a defender I was actually getting embarrassed for them.

Why do we play such a low tempo? Is this how we train and Fox's game plan?

If Levitt is going to sit alongside the centre half's then at least give him the ball short to try and pick a pass.

Harkes - never shows for it and when he gets it does nothing.

Behic - everything back where it came from

Niskanen - on about 10 minutes and still managed to have a nightmare. 

I'll probably forgive Edwards as his task to craft our attacks is a fucking nonsense.

I agree with the tempo and Harkes, not about Behic or Niskanen.  I thought Behic did well and would contribute more if we were going forward more quickly and if we had an actual game plan.

[Twinkle]

Ive no issues with Behich personally. Find it a bit strange that hes getting dug out considering some of the utter shite thats being glossed over. This 3 at the back needs binned as far as im concerned. Graham is having a shocker but seems to get a pass because of his age, Smiths fuckin hopeless in a variety of positions, Harkes is a complete imposter, Levitt has been atrocious and Niskanen will never be a footballer as long as i have a hole in my arse

 

The goalkeeper seems to be gaining in confidence and cant blame him for many of the goals we have conceded recently. Edwards needs to get his finger out as he seems in a rut and Freeman is fine as long as he is played at right back not as a wing back. I like Mcgrath, his first thought is to go forward when in possession and puts in a shift, Fletcher is fine, Sadat looks promising, and Cudjoe looks like he has something about him when given the chance, same with Sibbald

 

Theres positives in there but not nearly enough to get us out of this shitshow right now

[Granny Danger]

17 minutes ago, Twinkle said:

Ive no issues with Behich personally. Find it a bit strange that hes getting dug out considering some of the utter shite thats being glossed over. This 3 at the back needs binned as far as im concerned. Graham is having a shocker but seems to get a pass because of his age, Smiths fuckin hopeless in a variety of positions, Harkes is a complete imposter, Levitt has been atrocious and Niskanen will never be a footballer as long as i have a hole in my arse

 

The goalkeeper seems to be gaining in confidence and cant blame him for many of the goals we have conceded recently. Edwards needs to get his finger out as he seems in a rut and Freeman is fine as long as he is played at right back not as a wing back. I like Mcgrath, his first thought is to go forward when in possession and puts in a shift, Fletcher is fine, Sadat looks promising, and Cudjoe looks like he has something about him when given the chance, same with Sibbald

 

Theres positives in there but not nearly enough to get us out of this shitshow right now

McGrath was very good yesterday.  Sadly some decent individual performances being overshadowed by yet another defeat and a collective failure.

Was Fox the right appointment?

How long will he get?

If he goes surely FT must go with him?

[SGMilne]

Would Smith not be a good option to sit in front of a back 4?

So 

                   Erikssen

Behic, Mulgrew, Edwards, Freeman

                    Smith

         McGrath      Levitt

 Watt            Fletcher       Anaku

[SGMilne]

1 hour ago, ArabFC said:

That was obviously what they did, but again, earmarked to leave by who? Ashgar?

Fox was caretaker - they were obviously considering him for the job full-time, but they moved Clark on anyway. And brought in another forward.

Im not even suggesting there’s anything wrong with this - it’s always made sense to me that clubs shouldn’t devolve all transfer decisions to managers that are often around for a year, or less.

The point is decisions are clearly being made without a manager, so I doubt JR had the freedom most appear to presume.

Had he always had his eye on the two Aussies for example?

I as a fan would just like the club to be honest about the decision making structure.

I was thinking about this...

I would imagine that like it or not, the chairman will dictate sales rather than the manager.

So he'll have given the go ahead to sign X or Y on the assumption that certain players are moved on?

I think you're absolutely right in your last point; if the club was open about it, then it would certainly help.

[Tannadeechee]

1 hour ago, ArabFC said:

That was obviously what they did, but again, earmarked to leave by who? Ashgar?

Fox was caretaker - they were obviously considering him for the job full-time, but they moved Clark on anyway. And brought in another forward.

Im not even suggesting there’s anything wrong with this - it’s always made sense to me that clubs shouldn’t devolve all transfer decisions to managers that are often around for a year, or less.

The point is decisions are clearly being made without a manager, so I doubt JR had the freedom most appear to presume.

Had he always had his eye on the two Aussies for example?

I as a fan would just like the club to be honest about the decision making structure.

Birighitti was  Ross signing seemingly, McGrath and Middleton were both Ross signings also.

They don't need to be as such though, recommendations are out to him, he brings his own,looks at the options and chooses 1st,2nd etc choice TA goes to try and get them. I'm sure that has been said by the club previously that's how it works, which would be them being honest, but (many) fans don't or won't believe it.

Can only assume that Clark was told.he could leave, but he'd be around until a bid came in. STJ have come in after agent has informed them about situation and off he goes. If this is refused then do you have an unhappy player? To be honest I'd have been OK with Clark staying if played along side Fletcher as Anaku was yesterday.

[ArabFC]

7 hours ago, Tannadeechee said:

They don't need to be as such though, recommendations are out to him, he brings his own, looks at the options and chooses 1st,2nd etc choice TA goes to try and get them. I'm sure that has been said by the club previously that's how it works.

If it's been said, I'm sure somebody can find it. I have no recollection of this.

[Hendo]

Just saw an article about Gordon Grady taking the club to an employment tribunal, does anyone know the story there?

[Derry Alli]

41 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Just saw an article about Gordon Grady taking the club to an employment tribunal, does anyone know the story there?

It involves a youth player.

[Derry Alli]

It's great to see Tony Watt give the Darren Jackson guarantee, it really is.

[Sarto Mutiny]

It's great to see Tony Watt give the Darren Jackson guarantee, it really is.

In fairness to Tony Watt, I suspect he was directly asked "will Dundee United get relegated", to which he gave the only answer he could give. He could hardly say yes to that, could he?

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

2 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

It's great to see Tony Watt give the Darren Jackson guarantee, it really is.

In fairness to Tony Watt, I suspect he was directly asked "will Dundee United get relegated", to which he gave the only answer he could give. He could hardly say yes to that, could he?

Lying is wrong

[IrishBhoy]

A midfield containing McGrath and Levitt shouldn’t be struggling in the way United are currently. They are both pretty lightweight though, and as a few others already said an aggressive, tough tackling defensive mid to sit behind them wouldn’t go a miss. 
 

I thought McGrath played his best football at St Mirren when he was allowed to get closer to the strikers. He is a good passer of the ball and can move it on quickly to start an attack, but a midfield of himself, Levitt and Harkes won’t be giving many other teams too much trouble. Someone like Gogic to play that CDM role would be a perfect fit imo. 

[SGMilne]

1 hour ago, IrishBhoy said:

A midfield containing McGrath and Levitt shouldn’t be struggling in the way United are currently. They are both pretty lightweight though, and as a few others already said an aggressive, tough tackling defensive mid to sit behind them wouldn’t go a miss. 
 

I thought McGrath played his best football at St Mirren when he was allowed to get closer to the strikers. He is a good passer of the ball and can move it on quickly to start an attack, but a midfield of himself, Levitt and Harkes won’t be giving many other teams too much trouble. Someone like Gogic to play that CDM role would be a perfect fit imo. 

This is it and everyone appears to see it apart from those who pick the team.

This will come across as a daft thing to say but I don't think we've been outclassed by any team this season, and that looks absolutely incredible written down when you look at some of the results.

But in literally every game we've played - with the exception of probably the Hearts game where they scored so early - we've gone toe to toe with teams and have conceded arguably against the run of play. But because the team are both physically and mentally weak, that's all it takes. They chuck it.

In the first half against Celtic, I thought United played well until - through their own mistake - they conceded the second and then you saw a team completely give up. It wasn't like they were trying their best and Celtic were just too good; they simply stopped trying and opened the door for Celtic to do whatever the hell they liked. It was an absolute disgrace.

So Tony Watt can say that we won't get relegated and based on the talent we have, he's got a point in theory. But because of the talent - and leadership - we're missing, it's a very real possibility.

Edited October 3, 2022 by SGMilne

[skinny arab]

I posted in this thread back in July that if we didn’t sign a defensive midfielder we would be in serious trouble and guess what. Saturday saw us lose yet another goal where the oppositions midfielder get a free shot from the edge of the box without any of our midfielders anyplace near them. Butcher had no future at the club after what happened but he would make a huge difference to this team at the moment with his dig and leadership in front of the defence. 
I think come the transfer window the club as well as addressing the obvious seriously need to look at bringing someone capable of being captain, as for as good as Edwards has been (not so much recently) he just seem to offer anything on the pitch as a captain, I can’t recall ever seeing him trying to rally the team when things are going against us. 
 

Despite Tony Watts Darren Jacksonesque promise, relegation is a serious possibility and a major concern. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by skinny arab