The Dundee United Thread 22/23

[Dagdagh]

I rated Ross but it's interesting to see that since he and James Fowler parted company he has been less successful.  When you factor in that he couldn't bring John Potter with him to United it makes you wonder how good he is when he doesn't have a mate as his assistant. 

United didn't seem to have a game plan today, their shape was shocking and when seasoned pro's aren't even doing the basics you have to question the manager.  It's hard to tell if it was downing of tools or just players not knowing what they were meant to be doing but that was a truly shocking performance.  If I was an Arab I'd be raging tonight.

Given the wage he's on I wouldn't pull the trigger yet but if he hasn't improved things by the November World Cup break  then you'll have to bin him and get somebody else in to try and rescue you in the January window.

Luckily for you St Johnstone, Ross County and Kilmarnock look pretty honking just now as well.  The Motherwell game will probably be the one that'll show if he has a clue.  

 

[hk blues]

12 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

And Carson looks as good/better than both of them.

[hk blues]

11 hours ago, Aladdin said:

If its true that he has already lost the players then it does seem that there's only going to be one outcome and we would be better biting the bullet sooner rather than later.

 

let's be honest, the writing was on the wall when he did that interview wearing a dress jaicket and shorts.  He lost the respect of the dressing room right there and then. 

[GallowayBlue]

I feel like it’s time for the DUSF to stop funding infrastructure improvements and start building up a big cash fund. 
 

If Ogren gets fed up and decides he wants his money back, it will end in tears.

[Pull My Strings]

52 minutes ago, GallowayBlue said:

I feel like it’s time for the DUSF to stop funding infrastructure improvements and start building up a big cash fund. 
 

If Ogren gets fed up and decides he wants his money back, it will end in tears.

Why, what do you think he'll do? He'll not get his money back by crashing the club.

[Fifespud]

Why, what do you think he'll do? He'll not get his money back by crashing the club.

He’s not getting it back anyway and he’d stop the pain, put it down an horrific mistake, and never set foot in Scotland again.

Fundee United - the gift that keeps giving.

[Sarto Mutiny]

I don't blame Dundee fans for getting excited. I'd be getting carried away after *checks notes* a 0-0 draw with Morton

[K.T]

15 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

He’s not getting it back anyway and he’d stop the pain, put it down an horrific mistake, and never set foot in Scotland again.

Fundee United - the gift that keeps giving.

He’s still got that cursed golf course outside St Andrews mind. Another money pit.

[skinny arab]

14 hours ago, Afc69 said:

How’s Jamie McGrath getting on at Utd? Think Aberdeen dodged a bullet there, by pulling the plug on the deal when Wigan moved the goalposts. 

When we signed him most fans were happy that we had finally signed a natural number 10, the big problem is Ross seems to be unwilling to play him there (left of a midfield 3 yesterday and right of a front 3 against AZ) so it’s difficult to criticise the player until he gets a run of games in his natural position. 

[SGMilne]

Seems to me like the problems with this side are obvious and with 10 days left before the window closes, fixable.

United largely have a group of talented individuals playing for them, but not a team.

Who's at fault for that? The manager for trying to play a system that doesn't suit the players he has and the recruitment team for not assessing properly what type of player is needed to make that a team.

Jamie McGrath is a good player for example, but having already signed Levitt and extended the contract of Harkes, was he the best player to spend budget on when we're crying out for a ball winning midfielder and already have a few other players on the bench capable of playing in that position? Probably not.

Behic is a player with a good pedigree, but is he - with his instincts to play much further up the park than a 'left back' because he's a wing back - the right choice to fit into that side? Probably not.

Does signing Watt and Fletcher - who both naturally play high up the park - help a team whose centre back partnership have zero pace and can't play a high line? Probably not.

Is Jack Ross playing the best team available to him? Definitely not. He's putting out probably his best XI players but he's not putting out his best team. For me - and for so many others it would seem - we need to play a 5-3-2 or a 5-4-1 that allows Ross Graham to come in and support the struggling centre backs, puts Freeman and Behic as wing backs and then allows Levitt and McGrath potentially to play to their strengths. 

If he can't see it and just wants to persist with square pegs in round holes then he's part of the problem.

With 10 days left in this window, there's some surgery to be done on the squad. That ball winning midfielder is essential, but some players need moved on.

 

[NorthBank]

When we signed Gogic on loan last season I wasn't that fussed. However Gogic proved to be a brilliant signing. He was playing DM and doing a brilliant job covering the back line and was also able to carry the ball forward in mazy runs. A real winner. Was gutted when he didn't sign on when the season ended. Thought he was moving to Utd. Don't know what happened there but Utd's loss is our gain. Delighted to have him back on board and Utd really missed a trick in not getting him on board when allegedly they had the chance.

 

[Ric]

44 minutes ago, SGMilne said:

Seems to me like the problems with this side are obvious and with 10 days left before the window closes, fixable.

10 days to remove the manager, replace him, then ship players out the door, while bringing in new ones because of the new manager? Bloody hell, you are being optimistic!

It's an odd one with Ross, he had an awful time with us until he turned it around. He was also lucky the challenge in the championship that season was less than normal, and it's fair to say he recruited fairly well for it, then he jumped ship before finding out whether he could cut it in the Premiership. I still think he's a decent manager for this level but whatever is going on in the background is clearly affecting everyone.

I used to quite like him, but his smooth patter and cardigans is not helping. If I was a United fan I'd want him to look dishevelled and unkempt in a reflection of the problems you are in, looking like he is affected by this rather than sounding like a government spokesperson.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Ric

[Pull My Strings]

I'd say Ross is clearly the problem currently. He's got a much better squad than Courts had last season and the team has gone  backwards. We were boring and insipid going forward a lot of the time last season but we were at least solid and never panicked. That's three games in a row now that the team have completely collapsed. We're just as poor going forward but now we're also shite defensively. f**k knows what they're doing in training all week. 

The lack of a defensive minded midfielder has been obvious since the end of last season and he seems to have completely ignored it. The only guy who has come close to looking like he might be able to do that job is Sibbald, who has been inexplicably dropped after the starting the season well. A midfield three of Levitt, Harkes and McGrath is just mental particularly in a team lacking confidence. Presumably the plan is simply to blow the opposition away so we don't need to defend but we look a million miles away from being capable of doing that.

[Ric]

1 minute ago, Pull My Strings said:

I'd say Ross is clearly the problem currently.

You'd have to say he's not the sole problem. No matter the manager, players are paid employees, and the players on that park yesterday looked like they couldn't care less when the first went in, and showed even less gumption as the game went on. You could certainly argue that the manager is responsible for getting the players mentally ready, and you'd be correct if you did, but it's the old "horse to water" thing.

The whole "solutions meeting" thing seems weird af too, not sure if that's just gossip or actually happened.

[Sarto Mutiny]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

You'd have to say he's not the sole problem. No matter the manager, players are paid employees, and the players on that park yesterday looked like they couldn't care less when the first went in, and showed even less gumption as the game went on. You could certainly argue that the manager is responsible for getting the players mentally ready, and you'd be correct if you did, but it's the old "horse to water" thing.

The whole "solutions meeting" thing seems weird af too, not sure if that's just gossip or actually happened.

As others have said, the players have downed tools in three straight games now, and that is seriously worrying. Whoever is at fault, Jack Ross seems to be unable to get a tune out of this squad.

I am as sure as I can be that the "solutions meeting" did happen, and it made me think of the scene in the Damned United when the players go into the dressing room after a defeat and slam the door in Brian Clough's face.

[Ric]

Totally understand why United fans would be going, "I don't care who the f**k sorts this out, just get it sorted. Manager, player, owner, ball boys.. just sort it", as I said in another post Ross had a slow start with us. On the flip side Courts didn't leave you with a bad squad. When Ross took the St Mirren job, it was a rebuild.

Talking of Courts, has any cheeky scamp suggested a return for the prodigal son? I don't believe he's had the best of starts over in Hungary.

 

1 minute ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

I am as sure as I can be that the "solutions meeting" did happen, and it made me think of the scene in the Damned United when the players go into the dressing room after a defeat and slam the door in Brian Clough's face.

Do we know who did or didn't attend?

[Saint Shug]

At what point does the name of this thread change to the ‘Jack Ross Redundancy Thread’? 

[Drooper]

Jack Ross' most successful period in management was with St Mirren in the 2nd tier of Scottish football.

For me, it is absolutely no coincidence that the upturn in our form under Ross featured the arrival of Steven McGinn. McGinn was a leader on the pitch. He was passionate, committed, and provided coherence.  That was at least as significant as anything Ross contributed.

Without McGinn, St Mirren would have been relegated. Without McGinn, we would not have won the league the following year. 

Oh, and there is the small matter of Lewis Morgan being the best player in that division by a considerable stretch.

To a great extent, the stars aligned for Ross back then. His biggest mistake was not cutting his teeth in the top league with Saints. He believed the hype, and it has backfired spectacularly 

[Twinkle]

49 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

I'd say Ross is clearly the problem currently

Spot on. It might seem a bit foolish to say it given the circumstances but i believe we have one of the best squads outside the Old Firm. The problem seems to be the manager getting the best out of them. We have seen it happen once this season in the home game against AZ so the talent is definitely there

[Granny Danger]

35 minutes ago, Saint Shug said:

At what point does the name of this thread change to the ‘Jack Ross Redundancy Thread’? 

Sooner rather than later.

In the cold light of day that was an appalling performance and if it where stand alone you’d simply lick your wounds and move on to the next game.  However, leaving the European humiliation aside, there is no indication that Ross can identify the weaknesses in our squad and/or exploit its strengths.

That’s a real worry.