Euro 96

[Torpar]

22 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

 

Edit: also, the Germans supposedly used to hate their national team. It's only been in recent years they've had widespread support from Germans nationwide. Odd.

 

Really? My grandmother is German and we visited various parts of the country from 1990 onward, often during the summer when a tournament was on, there always seemed to be a general buzz when the national team was playing and everyone was behind them. We only visited the former West though, I'm sure there was some resentment from the Ossis. These days plenty of right wing dickheads hate the national team as they "aren't German anymore" 

[BFTD]

46 minutes ago, Torpar said:

Really? My grandmother is German and we visited various parts of the country from 1990 onward, often during the summer when a tournament was on, there always seemed to be a general buzz when the national team was playing and everyone was behind them. We only visited the former West though, I'm sure there was some resentment from the Ossis. These days plenty of right wing dickheads hate the national team as they "aren't German anymore" 

No personal experience, just what I read in a few articles in the 80s/90s that mentioned Germans having a mixed relationship to the Mannschaft; I seem to remember a good one in When Saturday Comes on that exact issue, stating that it might seem odd to British football fans. I've read this has changed since the World Cup they hosted in 2006, with the tournament being cited as helping to unify support.

You might be right, it could be an East/West thing. I don't really remember the details. Seems like people in the West were certainly happy enough in 1954!

[Latino Lover]

More interested in watching the build up to the england swiss game then the actual game. It’s amazing they didn’t tart Wembley up a bit more for this.  

[Guest JTS98]

10 hours ago, Latino Lover said:

More interested in watching the build up to the england swiss game then the actual game. It’s amazing they didn’t tart Wembley up a bit more for this.  

I think it's quite refreshing to modern eyes that they didn't.

Tournaments these days are generally held in identikit stadiums.

I was at Euro 2012 and the World Cup in 2018. If someone had put me blindfolded in one of the stadiums, I'd have struggled to guess where I was because the stadiums just looked like 'Tournament Stadium X'.

I think the samey nature of the stadiums these days is a shame.

Edited May 14, 2020 by JTS98

[BFTD]

The old Wembley was an absolute shithole TBF.

[Latino Lover]

It had terrible sight lines too. Hillsborough still looks dated now but I like it. Couldn’t afford to go to the St James’ ones as a 13 year old think the tickets started at £25.   I don’t think Euro 96 is going to stand up very well on reflection. 

[TheScarf]

A mate of mine is 10 years older and was 21 when this was on. He was down in London at the time and got tickets to some big games. He was at England - Netherlands and England - Spain and was behind the goals for both. 

Said it genuinely felt like the other goal was a mile away.  There was no point in even trying to see what was going on and just try to focus on the net to see if it shook.

[LondonHMFC]

Think that's the case for the new place as well. 

When West Ham moved to the running track, they compared the "sight lines" with Wembley. 

[TheScarf]

Absolutely fuck that.

 

[GordonS]

I just realised - that penalty win over Spain is the only knock-out match England have ever won in a European Championship finals.

They really are incredible under-achievers. They think their peers are Spain, Italy, Germany and France but their record puts them at the back end of the second tier in Europe. Ten countries have won the Euros, 12 have made the final, and all England has is two semi-finals, one of which was at home. 

[DA Baracus]

32 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I just realised - that penalty win over Spain is the only knock-out match England have ever won in a European Championship finals.

They really are incredible under-achievers. They think their peers are Spain, Italy, Germany and France but their record puts them at the back end of the second tier in Europe. Ten countries have won the Euros, 12 have made the final, and all England has is two semi-finals, one of which was at home. 

Are they really underachievers or are they actually just at the level they should be?

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Are they really underachievers or are they actually just at the level they should be?

When you look at population, finance, number of players at all ages, number of supporters, success of clubs, I don't see any reason why they should be so far behind;

(W) Germany - 22 SF, 14 F, 7 W

Italy - 13 SF, 9 F, 5 W

Spain - 6 SF, 5 F, 4 W

France - 11 SF, 6 F, 4 W

Netherlands - 10 SF, 4 F, 1 W

and even;

Portugal - 7 SF, 2 F, 1 W

Czechoslovakia/ Czech Rep - 7 SF, 4 F, 1 W

Russia/ USSR - 7 SF, 4 F, 1 W

On;

England - 5 SF, 1 F, 1 W

They've reached as many semi finals and finals as Sweden and fewer semi finals since '96 than Turkey. The really strange thing is that they've not managed to put one good team together in over 50 years. There have been 26 tournaments since England last won something, and they qualified for 19 of them. The only teams they've beaten in knock-out matches are Sweden, Colombia (pens), Denmark, Ecuador, Spain (pens), Belgium (aet), Cameroon (aet) and Paraguay. They've won as many knock-out matches in 50 years as France have in the past two tournaments.

I never see England described as under-achievers but they're easily the biggest under-achievers in world football.

FWIW, Scotland are huge under-achievers too, but at a different level. Every footballing country our size has done something; we've never done anything. 

[bairney]

Euro 96 England v Germany semi-final at Wembley on ITV4 just now, with all their "expectations".

This should be a laugh ☺

[Boo Khaki]

On 13/05/2020 at 14:58, TheGoon said:

Our game vs the Dutch is just about to start on ITV hub. 

Christ, could you imagine Scotland announcing a line-up to play a top tier nation now that included three forwards from the start?

I remember watching this match clear as a bell, and that just makes it all the more amazing that we came away with something despite the battering.

I was steaming for the England match so don't remember much beyond the goals, missed pen, and Durie's miss, but I only just got to the pub in time for kick-off in the Swiss match, and my recollections are that it was pretty even-steven throughout, but there was a definite sense that something was going to happen once McCoist came on.

I think the Euros suited Scotland far more than World Cup Finals. We went into tough groups in '92 and '96 not really expecting much, despite having a decent squad, and I thought we acquitted ourselves reasonably well in both tournaments. Came away feeling positive afterwards. Totally different from the 'aw fer fucks sake.... again....' feelings after '82, '86, '90, & '98

[DA Baracus]

On 13/05/2020 at 14:58, TheGoon said:

Our game vs the Dutch is just about to start on ITV hub. 

That was a Dutch team in transition (classic phrase!). They had some incredible players but mostly in defence, with their forwards unproven/not that good, Bergkamp aside. It was a great chance to beat them.

We were very defensive that game though. A draw was not a bad result but it was a real 'backs to the wall' performance for the most part.

Great Scotland team as well. Think at most Robertson and McGinn would get in that team from the current squad, or to be more accurate only they, at most, would remain in the current XI should those players be in their prime now.

Also the best Scotland top ever.

[Guest JTS98]

8 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

I think the Euros suited Scotland far more than World Cup Finals. We went into tough groups in '92 and '96 not really expecting much, despite having a decent squad, and I thought we acquitted ourselves reasonably well in both tournaments. Came away feeling positive afterwards. Totally different from the 'aw fer fucks sake.... again....' feelings after '82, '86, '90, & '98

The Euros in that era were savagely competitive and even being in the tournament was a decent achievement, especially the eight-team versions in 92 and 88.

I've re-watched a lot of games from Euros 88, 92, and 96 recently and it's noticeable that there's a bit of a drop in level in the 96 tournament. I think Scotland would have got out of most groups if we had avoided the hosts and the Dutch. There weren't many well-formed sides in the tournament.

Equally, we got on the tough side of the draw in 92 and may well have ended up in the semis if we'd been in the group with Sweden.

 

[Flybhoy]

On 12/05/2020 at 12:34, Melanius Mullarkey said:

I watched Scotland England in the student union in Dundee with my mate who is a geordie.  I poured my pint over him when Gazza scored and he got chucked out.  I later found him lying in a pool of his own vomit up a close on Castle Street.

Simpler times. 

I watched that game at a pub called The Courtyard in Stirling, was in for opening time and they showed Braveheart on the screens before the match to get everyone riled up etc.

My abiding memory was when we got the penalty the entire place naturally went ballistic, I was just as annoyed at drunken ignorant idiots still jumping about celebrating and not actually bothering to watch said penalty they so pissed and generally fucking stupid, still jumping about daft not realising we'd fucking missed it.

Gary McAllister, great player for Scotland yes but personally I will always detest the arrogant p***k for taking and missing it, John Collins should have taken it, he hadn't missed one in two years for Celtic whereas he had missed a few for Leeds that season and nearly always took them the same way, w****r. 

When Gascoigne scored well, quite frankly I stormed out in disgust, consoled myself by shagging a fat lassie from Stirling University a few hours later. 

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, Flybhoy said:

Gary McAllister, great player for Scotland yes but personally I will always detest the arrogant p***k for taking and missing it, John Collins should have taken it, he hadn't missed one in two years for Celtic whereas he had missed a few for Leeds that season and nearly always took them the same way, w****r. 

 

Personally, I'd have given the ball to McCoist. But Collins is a fair shout too.

If that goes in, we probably play France in the quarters at Anfield. Basically a home game against a team who, despite winning the World Cup two years later, were still about 4 years away from being really good.

That for a semi with the Czechs (who weren't all they were cracked up to be) at Old Trafford. Another home game.

Then a ropey German team in the final...

Obviously, I'm making huge fucking jumps here, but that penalty cost us our best shot at winning a tournament ever. We could have been Greece.

[Flybhoy]

2 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Personally, I'd have given the ball to McCoist. But Collins is a fair shout too.

If that goes in, we probably play France in the quarters at Anfield. Basically a home game against a team who, despite winning the World Cup two years later, were still about 4 years away from being really good.

That for a semi with the Czechs (who weren't all they were cracked up to be) at Old Trafford. Another home game.

Then a ropey German team in the final...

Obviously, I'm making huge fucking jumps here, but that penalty cost us our best shot at winning a tournament ever. We could have been Greece.

McCoist had come off the bench I seem to recall by that point, both him and Collins would have been a better shout to take that penalty, remember as well Seaman would have seen him take penalties for Leeds before then, doubt he'd have studied the other two who were playing in Glasgow back then. 

McCallister reminded me of a guy I played with in a pub side back then who's nickname was 'ma baw' on the basis that every attacking free kick, or a corner or penalty he decided he was taking, no one else got a say, always hated him since that day, fucking arrogant w****r. 

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, Flybhoy said:

McCallister reminded me of a guy I played with in a pub side back then who's nickname was 'ma baw' on the basis that every attacking free kick, or a corner or penalty he decided he was taking, no one else got a say, always hated him since that day, fucking arrogant w****r. 

McAllister is one of these guys where in my head I have to separate the player and the post-playing p***k.

Great player. Really magnificent and I feel bad that the penalty miss has come to define, for Scottish people at least, his whole career. Because to hear the way we talk about him, you'd forget he won the league with Leeds and was a very important player in a successful time at Liverpool. But that penalty...

Post-playing I try to shut him out. Like Neil McCann. A player I love, but not a post-player I love.