Future League Reconstruction

[Sergeant Wilson]

23 hours ago, the west curve said:

The 10 ream top league was too boring hence why it was ditched. 
 

 

I thought it was to relieve the pressure of relegation.

[EdinburghPar1975]

18 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Yes, unless they can adjust feeders divisions below them. Brechin are disputing where they, theoretically, go. Geographically they should go HL, but they'd rather go to LL.

Which is why there is another can of worms. Brechin want in the LL because of two main things 1) they fancy their chances in winning the LL easier than the HL and 2) the costs of travel to all the games in the HL would be higher for them than games in the LL. I understand their reasoning but could you rely on all clubs agreeing on where the lines were and the rules for the end of season redrawing of those lines depending on who ends up in the leagues?

Worth mentioning that the LL have called out that they were threatened with losing access to the SPFL cup comps if they didn't agree with Brechin being dropped into their league instead of the HL so there is already issues with trying to do this process...

FWIW I believe that any reconstruction should include an automatic place into the league for the winners of the HL/LL play off (and i'm assuming WoSL going forward). 

Scottish football will never end up with a perfect solution as there too much self interest (understandably). The current set up is far from perfect but is probably about as good as we can get unless things drastically change.

[jamamafegan]

I posted this on the other thread but I'll share on this on as well. This is my idea:

 

Everyone plays each other once home and away.

From next season I believe we will have an extra European spot - another champions league qualifier. We will also be entering teams into this so called Europa Conference League. I don't know what it is either - don't ask me.

Teams between 4th and 7th play-off for the Conference place and the winner qualifies for Europe. If the winner of the Scottish Cup is already in European competition then the play-off loser gets that last European slot. Therefore, winning the conference play-off guarantees entry to Europe but the there is still hope for the loser depending on the Scottish Cup situation. Does that make sense?

I think this way there is a good chance there would be an exciting end to the season with less meaningless games. Teams finishing between 8th and 13th would have likely been competing for a shot at Europe or avoiding relegation/relegation play-off. You might get some meaningless games there but you can't avoid them entirely.

[DA Baracus]

I don't think Brechin were actively trying to change any rules. I believe they were just asking if they could play in the LL should they be relegated. Their chances of winning that are no higher or lower than winning the Highland League, but travel costs are significantly reduced which was their main concern (the other significant one being player recruitment which would presumably be easier if they were in the Lowland League as players wouldn't have to travel as far for games, especially midweek ones).

There may have been a threat about chucking the LL teams out of the cups, but whoever made it is talking absolutely shite and does not have the power or authority to do it. It would never happen anyway. Clubs wouldn't stand for it. It would knacker the tournament formats. Sponsors would be walking away due to the massive negative publicity it would generate. It would be very easy to challenge legally. But most of all, the SPFL wouldn't change their own rules for it, even if one person wanted to do so.

[jamamafegan]

6 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

I don't think Brechin were actively trying to change any rules. I believe they were just asking if they could play in the LL should they be relegated. Their chances of winning that are no higher or lower than winning the Highland League, but travel costs are significantly reduced which was their main concern (the other significant one being player recruitment which would presumably be easier if they were in the Lowland League as players wouldn't have to travel as far for games, especially midweek ones).

I'm not having that.

Brechin regularly have to make journeys of around 2 hours to clubs in League 2. The Lowland League would be no different, with many away days being around 1 and a half to 2 hours long one way. 

The Highland League consists almost entirely of clubs from the North East with one way journeys of about 2 hours give or take to most stadiums from Brechin. Journey times start to significantly increase as soon as you need to go to Nairn and beyond to the likes of Fort William, Brora and Wick. Brora and Wick seem to do absolutely fine for players, travel costs and are able to compete in the league - some would say Brora could easily hold their own in League 2.

Brechin need to dry their eyes and accept the reality of the situation.

 

 

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

some would say Brora could easily hold their own in League 2.

B'Jesus! Do you really think so?

[DA Baracus]

Brora do fine on that front for a reason.

Wick do well enough but with a much poorer calibre of player.

Who knows what would have happened, but I don't see the harm in Brechin asking or enquiring as to the possibility.

[Cowden Cowboy]

1 hour ago, EdinburghPar1975 said:

Which is why there is another can of worms. Brechin want in the LL because of two main things 1) they fancy their chances in winning the LL easier than the HL and 2) the costs of travel to all the games in the HL would be higher for them than games in the LL. I understand their reasoning but could you rely on all clubs agreeing on where the lines were and the rules for the end of season redrawing of those lines depending on who ends up in the leagues?

Worth mentioning that the LL have called out that they were threatened with losing access to the SPFL cup comps if they didn't agree with Brechin being dropped into their league instead of the HL so there is already issues with trying to do this process...

FWIW I believe that any reconstruction should include an automatic place into the league for the winners of the HL/LL play off (and i'm assuming WoSL going forward). 

Scottish football will never end up with a perfect solution as there too much self interest (understandably). The current set up is far from perfect but is probably about as good as we can get unless things drastically change.

You really should not comment on things if you have no idea what you are talking about,  Firstly the Lowland League is probably stronger and will be harder to get out off and it will become increasingly so.  Secondly it is not the travel issue per se but the fact that Brechin draw their players mainly from the Central Belt that is an issue 

[craigkillie]

Where teams sign their players from is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

[EdTheDuck]

On 10/05/2020 at 13:11, the west curve said:

The 10 ream top league was too boring hence why it was ditched. 
 

 

f**k all to do with it being boring, we ended up with 12 as a payoff for the "breakaway" big (greedy b*****d) clubs to form the Scottish Premier League. The split was no more than a parctical solution to avoid playing 44 games btw, it was not some brilliant marketing dude* at the SFA/SPL who foresaw the possibilities of the race to the top 6 or the high stakes games it would guarantee post-split.

*I don't even know if the SFA/SPL/SPFL have marketing dudes and I would bet the mortgage money there is no one in any of the organizations that would be termed brilliant by anyone outside said organizations.

[LIVIFOREVER]

On 09/05/2020 at 13:07, Sparticus said:

So now that reconstruction for season 20/21 has been canned, what best structure should our league look like going forward for change at somepoint in a couple of seasons or five?

Pretty sure Hearts,Falkirk and other clubs who are convinced we must change will continue their work on this?

What will happen next? or has everyone lost interest already?

Looking at how these talks have gone, with everyone taking sides and coming out with statements slagging one another off, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of reconstruction ever taking place (without some dramatic event opening up the opportunity). For one thing, you'd have to get a deal which every club would gain an advantage from (as they ALL have self interest at the top of their list of priorities), or at least something nobody would be losing anything substantial, money, league status, threat to league status. 

It would have to be after a decent amount of time for all these grudges from the current reconstruction talks to calm down now too. But we all know it only takes one wrong word for an old grudge to flair right back up again.

Peacetime reconstruction would be a hard sell though, too many clubs in the top flight will be content with what they've got, it would have to be another dramatic event, like liquidation to zombies mark II, a Sevcovid-20/21 to shake things up enough to get change. The irony for The Rangers actually doing something for the greater good of Scottish football by going into liquidation, mon Sevcovid-12, for once in your existence, do the right thing and just die.

[lionel wickson]

23 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Looking at how these talks have gone, with everyone taking sides and coming out with statements slagging one another off, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of reconstruction ever taking place (without some dramatic event opening up the opportunity). 

Even the deadliest pandemic in over a century hasn't been dramatic enough. 

[Andy groundhopper]

Think some of the comments show how cosy life is in the spfl, until the threat of HL or LL became a reality. The finances will be much less without the TV payout etc - the players thing is important, clubs will be looking at a different pool of player, takes getting used to.  As to the league's, is a 2 hour journey really bad ?

[Sparticus]

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Looking at how these talks have gone, with everyone taking sides and coming out with statements slagging one another off, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of reconstruction ever taking place (without some dramatic event opening up the opportunity). For one thing, you'd have to get a deal which every club would gain an advantage from (as they ALL have self interest at the top of their list of priorities), or at least something nobody would be losing anything substantial, money, league status, threat to league status. 

It would have to be after a decent amount of time for all these grudges from the current reconstruction talks to calm down now too. But we all know it only takes one wrong word for an old grudge to flair right back up again.

Peacetime reconstruction would be a hard sell though, too many clubs in the top flight will be content with what they've got, it would have to be another dramatic event, like liquidation to zombies mark II, a Sevcovid-20/21 to shake things up enough to get change. The irony for The Rangers actually doing something for the greater good of Scottish football by going into liquidation, mon Sevcovid-12, for once in your existence, do the right thing and just die.

That kind of says what most are thinking.We already have the leagues constructed as best we can.No real need to change them.

[invergowrie arab]

14 - 16 - 16 

Premier 6/8 Split 2 automatic relegation spots

First and second divison split after 30 games 8/8. 2 automatic relegation places. Champions promoted 2-5 play semis and a final for second promotion spot.

Double Chance playoff

HL v LL play off for promotion winner goes up.

2nd HL v 2nd LL play a playoff semi. Winner plays loser of first playoff game in final for second promotion spot.

The point of this is principally to try and get movement in the LL pyramid as it's huge but at least gives HL a fair opportunity to have a go too.

Next season. No relegation from L2 guaranteed. Top 4 LL play Top 4 HL in two legged playoff finals to determine additional 4 teams. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by invergowrie arab

[ArabFC]

1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

14 - 16 - 16 

Premier 6/8 Split 2 automatic relegation spots

First and second divison split after 30 games 8/8. 2 automatic relegation places. Champions promoted 2-5 play semis and a final for second promotion spot.

Double Chance playoff

HL v LL play off for promotion winner goes up.

2nd HL v 2nd LL play a playoff semi. Winner plays loser of first playoff game in final for second promotion spot.

The point of this is principally to try and get movement in the LL pyramid as it's huge but at least gives HL a fair opportunity to have a go too.

Next season. No relegation from L2 guaranteed. Top 4 LL play Top 4 HL in two legged playoff finals to determine additional 4 teams. 

A split after 26 games, with 14 more games following the split is just mental even by the standards of our game!

[ropy]

14 is a no, unless we play x 3 which is horrible 

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, ArabFC said:

A split after 26 games, with 14 more games following the split is just mental even by the standards of our game!

It's a lot of fun