VE Day celebrations.

[GordonS]

26 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

More a rejection of the Conservative party rather than Churchill himself, I think. I dare say a Labour government with Churchill as PM would have been quite popular (assuming it had enacted the same legislation as was actually passed).

I thought I understood what happened in the '45 election but you got me wondering. Just been reading these, interesting stuff:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/election_01.shtml

https://www.military-history.org/articles/5-key-reasons-churchill-lost-the-1945-general-election.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_United_Kingdom_general_election

My recollection that Churchill ran a bad campaign seems to be right, but there was obviously plenty more going on than that. Things might have been different if he'd adopted the Beveridge Report but I'm very glad he didn't - it's much better for us all that a Labour Government established the NHS than that it was a Tory version. 

[Shandon Par]

There’s a joint concert being held by the BBC and the Royal British Legion. It will feature a performance by Shane Ritchie. That genuinely sounds worse than WW2.

[Jacksgranda]

7 minutes ago, GordonS said:

So did I, until I read about this place recently, commanded by a Nazi p***k: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wauwilermoos_internment_camp 

Never heard of it before.

There were 3 of these places, there must have been a serious amount of allied personnel and civilians convicted in military courts to have enough internees/prisoners for 3 of these places.

"On 1 October 1944 Switzerland housed 39,670 internees in all: 20,650 from Italy, 10,082 from Poland, 2,643 from the United States, 1,121 from the United Kingdom (including five Australians), 822 from the Soviet Union, and 245 from France."

[Fullerene]

9 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Never heard of it before.

There were 3 of these places, there must have been a serious amount of allied personnel and civilians convicted in military courts to have enough internees/prisoners for 3 of these places.

"On 1 October 1944 Switzerland housed 39,670 internees in all: 20,650 from Italy, 10,082 from Poland, 2,643 from the United States, 1,121 from the United Kingdom (including five Australians), 822 from the Soviet Union, and 245 from France."

The Republic of Ireland sounds like more fun.

https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-most-bizarre-pow-camp-during-wwii-curragh/

[101]

31 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Homophobia led to the Second World War? Please elucidate.

Well general intolerance, but they did decide that being gay was worthy of being killed

[D.A.F.C]

There’s a joint concert being held by the BBC and the Royal British Legion. It will feature a performance by Shane Ritchie. That genuinely sounds worse than WW2.

Worse than hitler

[Jacksgranda]

33 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I thought I understood what happened in the '45 election but you got me wondering. Just been reading these, interesting stuff:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/election_01.shtml

https://www.military-history.org/articles/5-key-reasons-churchill-lost-the-1945-general-election.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_United_Kingdom_general_election

My recollection that Churchill ran a bad campaign seems to be right, but there was obviously plenty more going on than that. Things might have been different if he'd adopted the Beveridge Report but I'm very glad he didn't - it's much better for us all that a Labour Government established the NHS than that it was a Tory version. 

Those links were an interesting read.

[Jacksgranda]

19 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

The Republic of Ireland sounds like more fun.

https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-most-bizarre-pow-camp-during-wwii-curragh/

They were "neutral", too!

[Jacksgranda]

20 minutes ago, 101 said:

Well general intolerance, but they did decide that being gay was worthy of being killed

That's not a driver for war though, as you posted.

That would apply to all countries in the 1930s/40s.

Homosexuality was illegal in the UK until the 1960s.

[Tutankhamen]

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

That's not a driver for war though, as you posted.

That would apply to all countries in the 1930s/40s.

Homosexuality was illegal in the UK until the 1960s.

It was illegal in Scotland until 1980.

[tamthebam]

2 hours ago, renton said:

 

So it wasnt just pride that had the British putting so much effort into Bush whacking Bismarck...

"Achtung, der Britischer  double entendre! Get me Kenneth Williams..." 

[Dunfermline Don]

The positive is that the lockdown has stopped the bunting and street parties. 
It will just be the odd racist building papermache spitfires in their garden and BBC wanking themselves into a frenzy which is easily avoided.  

I have already seen some old workmates down south showing off their preparations on FB.

[101]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

That's not a driver for war though, as you posted.

That would apply to all countries in the 1930s/40s.

Homosexuality was illegal in the UK until the 1960s.

General intolerance was a factor in the rise of the Nazi party and thus war. 

Nonsense to suggest being gay was illegal in all countries in the 30's and 40's Poland had never criminalised Homosexuality and made the age of consent the same as heterosexual relationships. France had de-criminalised in the late 1700s. Denmark and the Philippines had de-criminalised in the 30's Iceland, Switzerland, Sweden all decriminalised in the 40's. USSR had de-criminalised in the 20's before reverting in the mid/late 30's. Vast majority of countries in the world sadly still criminalised homosexuality and a huge chunk of that can probably be placed at the British Empire spreading our intolerance. 

It is sad that the current UK Prime Minister has used homophobic slurs in the past and that was the point I was trying to clumsily make.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

So if tomorrow is VE day, does this mean today is VD day?

[Jacksgranda]

13 minutes ago, 101 said:

General intolerance was a factor in the rise of the Nazi party and thus war. 

Nonsense to suggest being gay was illegal in all countries in the 30's and 40's Poland had never criminalised Homosexuality and made the age of consent the same as heterosexual relationships. France had de-criminalised in the late 1700s. Denmark and the Philippines had de-criminalised in the 30's Iceland, Switzerland, Sweden all decriminalised in the 40's. USSR had de-criminalised in the 20's before reverting in the mid/late 30's. Vast majority of countries in the world sadly still criminalised homosexuality and a huge chunk of that can probably be placed at the British Empire spreading our intolerance. 

It is sad that the current UK Prime Minister has used homophobic slurs in the past and that was the point I was trying to clumsily make.

Where did I say it was illegal in all countries pre war?

The British Empire influenced the laws in the Spanish, Portugese and Dutch empires?

[Shandon Par]

Even in her prime, VEra Lynn was never a wid IMO. 

Then:

 

Now:

 

Nena on the other hand..

Then:

Now:

 

 

[101]

11 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Where did I say it was illegal in all countries pre war?

The British Empire influenced the laws in the Spanish, Portugese and Dutch empires?

You said it would apply to all countries when clearly that's not the case, laws tend to reflect the society as a whole so a load of European countries making homosexuality legal reflects that they probably were very tolerant.

No, but fairly sure our empire was the largest.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

25 minutes ago, 101 said:

General intolerance was a factor in the rise of the Nazi party and thus war. 

Nonsense to suggest being gay was illegal in all countries in the 30's and 40's Poland had never criminalised Homosexuality and made the age of consent the same as heterosexual relationships. France had de-criminalised in the late 1700s. Denmark and the Philippines had de-criminalised in the 30's Iceland, Switzerland, Sweden all decriminalised in the 40's. USSR had de-criminalised in the 20's before reverting in the mid/late 30's. Vast majority of countries in the world sadly still criminalised homosexuality and a huge chunk of that can probably be placed at the British Empire spreading our intolerance. 

It is sad that the current UK Prime Minister has used homophobic slurs in the past and that was the point I was trying to clumsily make.

Weimar Germany, at least in urban areas, was probably one of the best places in the world to be gay or transgender at that time, a very liberal place and until the Nazis were elected I believe (don't have time to find the figures) a clear majority voted for centre left to left wing parties.

Nazism won one free national election, but only then taking advantage of the voting system and intimidation/street violence. Far more than a generally intolerant population Nazism rose in Germany due to the left failing (in the case of the communists, being specifically banned as Stalin was worried about the SDP's plan for a version of the eu strengthening western Europe) to unite effectively in the same way that the Nazis coalesced the forces of conservatism and corporate business under their banner. Intolerance was only a factor for those who would have voted for the Nazis anyway.

So not only did Stalin ally with the Germans, and extend the war by obliterating his own army in the purges, his government was to a large extent responsible for the rise of the Nazis in the first place. This was around the same time he was repressing those who believes in genetics in agriculture and having his dead wife's family killed. Sorry I know you weren't talking about Stalin but f**k Stalin 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

16 minutes ago, Shandon Par said:

Even in her prime, VEra Lynn was never a wid IMO. 

Then:

Neeeiiiggghhhhh chance

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, 101 said:

You said it would apply to all countries when clearly that's not the case, laws tend to reflect the society as a whole so a load of European countries making homosexuality legal reflects that they probably were very tolerant.

No, but fairly sure our empire was the largest.

I did not say it was illegal in all countries. I said intolerance of homosexuality probably applied to all countries. Quite a few Islamic states, uninfluenced by the UK, have the death penalty for homosexuality e.g Iran.

I'm not so sure about our empire being the biggest. Spain would have run us close.