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An Idiot's Guide to the West of Scotland Football League?!

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That's good your leaning towards the vale hopefully see you down the park

As you can see, I follow St. Mirren and will be purchasing season tickets for them next season. However, I stay in Glasgow's East End and my nearest clubs are either Vale of Clyde or Shettleston Juniors.
I have to admit I have never paid much attention to the Juniors, however the pyramid shake up that's happening has piqued my interest.
According to the Daily Record:

West of Scotland League chiefs have this evening unveiled the line-ups for three Conference divisions.

The leagues will sit under a tier six top flight of 20 teams announced on Friday.

Source: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/west-scotland-league-conference-sections-21973101

So the West of Scotland League will be tier six, which presumably means the champions will be promoted to the Lowland League, is that correct?
So the three conferences are effectively tier seven, though presumably they will be split into divisions at the end of next season.

Conference A

Arthurlie, Bellshill Athletic, Craigmark Burntonians, Forth Wanderers, Girvan, Glasgow Uni, Irvine Vics, Johnstone Burgh, Lesmahagow, Lugar Boswell, Maryhill, Maybole, Muirkirk, Saltcoats, Shotts, Whitletts.

Conference B

Annbank, Ardeer, Ashfield, Cambuslang Rangers, Carluke Rovers, Dalry Thistle, Gartcairn, Greenock, Kello Rovers, Newmains Utd, Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Royal Albert, Shettleston, St Cadoc's, Thorniewood.

Conference C

Ardrossan Winton Rovers, Drumchapel United, East Kilbride Thistle, Glasgow Perthshire, Kilsyth Rangers, Lanark Utd, Larkhall Thistle, Neilston, Petershill, St Anthony's, St Roch's, Vale of Clyde, Vale of Leven, Wishaw, Yoker Athletic.

I'm a bit miffed that Vale of Clyde are not in the same league as Shettleston, to be honest! However it will be really good to be able to follow my local clubs' progress, as I had no idea of what league either were in previously. I will definitely try to make to to some games and will probably adopt one of them as my second team. I'm leaning towards the Vale. Cambuslang Rangers v Shettleston is a potentially tasty tie, though.
 
ETA: Map of all West of Scotland Football League clubs:
https://wosfl.co.uk/your-local-club/

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6 minutes ago, Mackay14 said:

I'm a bit miffed that Vale of Clyde are not in the same league as Shettleston, to be honest! However it will be really good to be able to follow my local clubs' progress, as I had no idea of what league either were in previously. I will definitely try to make to to some games and will probably adopt one of them as my second team. I'm leaning towards the Vale. Cambuslang Rangers v Shettleston is a potentially tasty tie, though.

Why would you be miffed - they weren't in the same league this season, and the conferences are not influenced by geography. They are set up so that each conference is roughly equal in quality to the others, so that clubs have the same opportunity as all the others to make it to 1st or the top 5.

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15 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

It is a limited pool to extrapolate that data from, but I think claiming that Talbot, Pollok and Bankies would be capable in the English Tier 7 isn't a controversial motion. The average crowd in 2018-19 of the Southern League Premier South was 338, probably in line with the West Premier.

Andy initially claimed that the WoS would hope to be able to compete with Tier 8/9 in England.

Am possibly a bit insane, but I'd never say tier 8/9 as that's below County League standard. As stated I thought the team's I'd seen were around step 4/5, but if the Auchinleck's, Lowland Lge etc are up around the National League then brilliant. Just out of interest I usually see 30+ games up to Southern Lge and try to get to Scotland 2 or 3 times a season. Happy to be corrected 😀

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31 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Am possibly a bit insane, but I'd never say tier 8/9 as that's below County League standard. As stated I thought the team's I'd seen were around step 4/5, but if the Auchinleck's, Lowland Lge etc are up around the National League then brilliant. Just out of interest I usually see 30+ games up to Southern Lge and try to get to Scotland 2 or 3 times a season. Happy to be corrected 😀

 

On 06/05/2020 at 18:34, Andy groundhopper said:

Being a southern groundhopper,I've been lucky enough to have seen around 75+ junior games recently - all clubs come across very friendly with decent support. The grounds will no doubt be improved before long, the football on a par with possibly step 4/5 down here. (sometimes not ! ) Maybe the juniors are now history,but here's hoping the way forward is a success for everyone. 

Step 4/5 is Tier 8/9 if my understanding is correct. That's why I quoted you up on it. Fair enough, as it's easy mistake to make. Hopefully you'll get to a  few WoS or LL games next season.

Ngl I am very jealous of the English set-up. In terms of going all the way down the levels.

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On 06/05/2020 at 11:07, AsimButtHitsASix said:

The head start the non-Junior and ex-Junior sides have over the West Region is probably bigger than the fans of West Junior clubs are aware of. A few years of Scottish Cup games, some good draws and decent runs, have gave them a financial head start against all in the West apart from Auchinleck. Can't see anyone in the West getting their license in time for the next couple of Scottish Cup draws or promotion to the Lowland League with this COVID19 stuff so there's still a lot of catching up to do for many of them.

You are correct. As a QP fan I often see Pollok when the senior season is over. What is the view of the Junior fans regards to the cost to get into senior games. The cost is £15 at QP games and I think Albion Rovers are the cheapest at £12 per game.

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I get the idea down south over the dream of being a football league club (daydream but possible) one day. How do clubs feel in Scotland about maybe being a spfl club in say 5-10 years ? And is the licensing thing a brick wall or a stumbling block deliberately put in place ? Just wondering

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You are correct. As a QP fan I often see Pollok when the senior season is over. What is the view of the Junior fans regards to the cost to get into senior games. The cost is £15 at QP games and I think Albion Rovers are the cheapest at £12 per game.
I think the likes of league 2 should be be around £10 or £12 , £8 for Lowland

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19 minutes ago, Talbot supporter said:
47 minutes ago, Dooflick said:
You are correct. As a QP fan I often see Pollok when the senior season is over. What is the view of the Junior fans regards to the cost to get into senior games. The cost is £15 at QP games and I think Albion Rovers are the cheapest at £12 per game.

I think the likes of league 2 should be be around £10 or £12 , £8 for Lowland

I think its only Berwick Rangers and East Stirlingshire that charge £8 or over.

This was from last year.

Image

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3 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Am possibly a bit insane, but I'd never say tier 8/9 as that's below County League standard. As stated I thought the team's I'd seen were around step 4/5, but if the Auchinleck's, Lowland Lge etc are up around the National League then brilliant. Just out of interest I usually see 30+ games up to Southern Lge and try to get to Scotland 2 or 3 times a season. Happy to be corrected 😀

As someone who has seen a fair bit of National League Football - my home town team is Grimsby Town - and also followed the Talbot for the last 30 years, I think the link between Lowland League clubs and others to that league is spurious indeed. The National League is  a very competitive league, with half the teams being ex Football League clubs. I think it's fair to say the likes of Talbot might compete there, but I do think it would be a struggle. Think a better analogy would be the next level down at Conference North and South, albeit the Conference North also has seven ex Football League teams in it (eight if you count the phoenix club, Hereford) The top lowland league clubs, Talbot and maybe one or two others would find that a very competitive league, but they'd do okay.

Question is, and it's a big one because of the totally different culture in the game up here, could a similar sized English club do good in the Lowland League, or harder still in the new West of Scotland league, which I think will be far more competitive than the LL?

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16 hours ago, gogsy said:

You seem to be confused. When you say senior do you mean SPFL games, there are plenty of senior games where entry is available for a lot less.

Yes I meant SPFL games. Most Junior teams in the west of Scotland charge £5/6. How do you think their fans would react to having to pay £12/15 in SPFL2.

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8 minutes ago, Dooflick said:

Yes I meant SPFL games. Most Junior teams in the west of Scotland charge £5/6. How do you think their fans would react to having to pay £12/15 in SPFL2.

Mate they won't pay that no chance ffs many will have no clue anything has changed and won't really care some even scoff at paying 3 quid!  that's the reality .

Anyone under 40 will be reluctant to pay over ten quid , many watch senior football in top four leagues if they want to pay more than a tenner they will go watch that no the local team they go watch when it suits them or a pal is playing  again the reality. 

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Yes I meant SPFL games. Most Junior teams in the west of Scotland charge £5/6. How do you think their fans would react to having to pay £12/15 in SPFL2.
Edinburgh City were getting less than 100 in the Lowland League, now they have regular crowds of over 300 paying more. Same with Annan. Like it or not, more people are attracted to watch SPFL football than any other league.

Also, clubs can charge what they like. If Talbot or Pollok make L2, they can charge £8 if they want. There's no set charges in the SPFL, or the LL for that matter. In the EoS charges range from £3-£7, the WoS clubs can charge what they like as well.

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16 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Edinburgh City were getting less than 100 in the Lowland League, now they have regular crowds of over 300 paying more. Same with Annan. Like it or not, more people are attracted to watch SPFL football than any other league.

Also, clubs can charge what they like. If Talbot or Pollok make L2, they can charge £8 if they want. There's no set charges in the SPFL, or the LL for that matter. In the EoS charges range from £3-£7, the WoS clubs can charge what they like as well.

Just out of curiosity - is there a "Constitution and Rules" online for the East of Scotland League (or FA for that matter) ?

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5 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

Just out of curiosity - is there a "Constitution and Rules" online for the East of Scotland League (or FA for that matter) ?

No, though there is for the LL and SOS. Would be good to have them online in the interests of transparency.

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Yes I meant SPFL games. Most Junior teams in the west of Scotland charge £5/6. How do you think their fans would react to having to pay £12/15 in SPFL2.

Most fans would probably buy a season ticket.

I do remember a lot of folk weren’t happy when it went to £6. An extra quid ffs

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5 hours ago, Dooflick said:

Yes I meant SPFL games. Most Junior teams in the west of Scotland charge £5/6. How do you think their fans would react to having to pay £12/15 in SPFL2.

No clubs see their crowds fall as they rise up the leagues. Those who'd fall away would be replaced.

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17 hours ago, Black Pennel said:

f**k sake...your home town team is Grimsby ?

All these years you've been pretending to be Welsh ?

A bit of poetic licence there to be honest. My home town of North Cornelly in Glamorgan don't have a football team as far as I'm aware, but I was four when I left Wales so would never have seen them anyway. Followed the mighty Mariners all over the place for the best part of 20 years before heading north. You could say I'm cosmopolitan! You could also say many other things about me, but let's not go there, please....

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You can walk to Barrhead from Paisley so anyone needing a Junior fix has it there. And then you have Burgh, Renfrew and Neilston too.
"junior fix" it's no crack mate.

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On 07/05/2020 at 19:15, Dooflick said:

You are correct. As a QP fan I often see Pollok when the senior season is over. What is the view of the Junior fans regards to the cost to get into senior games. The cost is £15 at QP games and I think Albion Rovers are the cheapest at £12 per game.

I grew up in the sooside, lived in King's Park until 2000 and I went to a lot of QP games. They were my "wee" team, I even own a QP top. With absolutely no disrespect to the club and its great fans, and speaking only from person preference, I enjoy the experience of following Linlithgow Rose much more.  Price is a factor in that - at £7, price isn't a factor in deciding whether to go to a game or not. At £15, I'm probably picking and choosing games. There's very little difference in standard of football so the considerably higher cost is annoying. The food at Hampden is really expensive too and pretty low quality, though obviously that's very much a secondary factor. Having said that, an Oliphant's steak and haggis pie is a great accompaniment to a game of football.

On 07/05/2020 at 19:24, Andy groundhopper said:

I get the idea down south over the dream of being a football league club (daydream but possible) one day. How do clubs feel in Scotland about maybe being a spfl club in say 5-10 years ? And is the licensing thing a brick wall or a stumbling block deliberately put in place ? Just wondering

Related to the above... I'd much, much, much rather see Linlithgow Rose in a 16-team Lowland League with the best of east and west, paying £7-£8, than in a 10-team League Two paying £15. I hate some of the rules that go along with watching games higher up the system - bag searches, not being allowed to bring a bottle of juice or drink from a can, obnoxious stewarding, no re-entry at half time, that kind of thing. I really hate segregation. If Rose were more successful and, say, moved to a one-stand all-seated ground (like East Fife) on the edge of town, playing the same opponents four times a season and charging £15, I would pick and choose my games.  I'm sure there would be two new supporters for every one they lost like me, though.

If I wanted to support a bigger club, I would support a bigger club.

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