An Idiot's Guide to the West of Scotland Football League?!

[FairWeatherFan]

35 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Are you saying therefore that there is no incentive for away fans to attend league games then in that case? I don't buy that argument, and what we need to be careful with is this turning into another Junior Cup situation where potentially both the home and away clubs lose money from the game.

 

The LL, EoS and SoS seem to be happy with the current rules, although as ever, if a proposal is submitted that clubs are happy with then the rule can change.

In the East Region cup competitions, did the gate receipts get split 50/50?

I was able to find the 2016-17 & 2019-20 East Region Handbooks.

http://www.ultrasoft2.co.uk/ersjfa/mobile/Handbook13-07-16.pdf

http://www.ultrasoft2.co.uk/ersjfa/Handbook29-07-2019.pdf

In the Finance section it only seems to be the Region getting 25% from Finals. In the Management section under Rule 42 there is a bit that says away sides get 50% of the gate, but if i'm reading that its only for abandoned ties.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I love this guy, I think he's funny as feck

delusional, hmmmm, but I will say even the die hards of "saving the junior grade" don't think to highly of him and I'm sure most would want him to stop because of the harm he does.
He is typically the type of reason junior football is where it is today, and we all know where that is, disappearing fast

He'll be offline for a wee while I reckon - they're re-running a junior cup final on Alba.

[Andy groundhopper]

1 hour ago, traffordab said:

So an english based groundhopper from where bristol was it?

Telling scottish football fans it's finished and mentioning a better level.

Clueless tosh.  

Idiots guide thread right enough .

Very encouraging , glad that you have all the answers then, be watching you with interest. The Juniors become seniors, the better junior clubs will eventually rise to the L.L and maybe beyond , the poorer spfl clubs will drop down . Unless you know different of course.

[Ginaro]

19 hours ago, Shannon said:

20 hours ago, Ginaro said:

At least there won't be big expensive away ties like in the Junior Cup though, as clubs won't be going north of Perth.

Ayrshire to Berwick / Dunbar or vice versa ain't exactly cheap for clubs to be honest and why need to look at half gate receipts or 60/40 etc so away clubs are not in even more trouble financially from first 2/3 rounds of cup draws if they get unlucky draws.

Would the £300 automatically paid by the SCC, or the £330 you'd get in the Junior Cup (£220 guarantee + 50% from the SJFA) be enough to cover travel expenses of that distance anyway?

I think the system works fine for the clubs we had this season, the only negative compared to the Junior Cup would be away clubs not getting a share of big crowds.

Not sure why you deleted your other post from last night. But let's be honest, us talking about it here won't change anything so you should speak to your club and also contact the WOSFL https://wosfl.co.uk/contact-us/

18 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Perth to Castle Douglas

Greenock to Berwick

Home team keeps the gate, sounds the business.

Unless there is a decent crowd, it would be no different to the Junior Cup for the away club. The guarantee would be £220 (+50% from the SJFA) in a Junior Cup tie. So with split gates you'd need receipts of £500+ to go above the guarantee, which would be around 100 paying spectators (assuming £6/3 and 1/3 concessions). Home club would only bank £220 having paid for an official.

In the South Challenge Cup the away club gets £300 for that journey automatically and the home club would bank the £500 minus the cost of an official. I'd expect the attendance at Luncarty v Threave Rovers or Greenock v Tweedmouth in your example would be around 100.

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

Are you saying therefore that there is no incentive for away fans to attend league games then in that case? I don't buy that argument, and what we need to be careful with is this turning into another Junior Cup situation where potentially both the home and away clubs lose money from the game.

The LL, EoS and SoS seem to be happy with the current rules, although as ever, if a proposal is submitted that clubs are happy with then the rule can change.

Everyone plays the same amount of home and away league games though, so it balances itself out.

The difference with the Junior Cup is you have the SCC paying the travel expenses automatically, so the home club doesn't lose out.

IMO split gates should only happen if there's enough money from the gate receipts to a) cover the match officials and b) pay the guarantee. If not, the home club keeps the gate and the SCC pays the guarantee. So unless gate receipts minus officials are at least £625, there wouldn't be a 60/40 split.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

IMO split gates should only happen if there's enough money from the gate receipts to a) cover the match officials and b) pay the guarantee. If not, the home club keeps the gate and the SCC pays the guarantee. So unless gate receipts minus officials are at least £625, there wouldn't be a 60/40 split.

I think this seems a sensible enough suggestion. SCC guarantees travel of £300 as an example. The home gate needs to cover the match officials + £300 travel guarantee + £300 for the home club. Everything after those costs get split 50/50. If the gate doesn't cover it then the away team gets their travel guarantee from the SCC and the home team have to make the best of it.

Then for games within 50 miles that don't have a travel guarantee. All that would have to be covered from the gate are the match officials costs and  everything after is 50/50. That way the travelling club should get a little something even for the smallest crowds.

 

[Burnieman]

I wonder if the travel subsidies will remain at the same levels with 67 new clubs, and a large increase in ties.

[Spyro]

13 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I wonder if the travel subsidies will remain at the same levels with 67 new clubs, and a large increase in ties.

Would that not be up to the cup organisers to make sure that remains? With the extra clubs and the massive upturn in popularity that will bring, the exposure and sponsorship potential should increase proportionally

[Burnieman]

Would that not be up to the cup organisers to make sure that remains? With the extra clubs and the massive upturn in popularity that will bring, the exposure and sponsorship potential should increase proportionally

The cup organisers are the leagues themselves, it's a collaborative effort.

[Spyro]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

Would that not be up to the cup organisers to make sure that remains? With the extra clubs and the massive upturn in popularity that will bring, the exposure and sponsorship potential should increase proportionally

The cup organisers are the leagues themselves, it's a collaborative effort.

So would it not fall on them to make sure the subsidies remained the same? I’m just playing dr il advocate... I’ve always loved the SCC ever since it was the old qualifying cup. Can’t wait to see next season's competition with these new teams, I just hope they make it a success 

[Andy groundhopper]

Am sure the Sth C.Cup will grow from the next campaign, and because the covid19 has hit most clubs financially - I hope that for all lge and cup games the fans turn out in bigger numbers to help clubs get through. Would expect the cup travel costs etc to remain in place despite the growth, are any league's helping out with the lge fees ? A few down south are waiving them for next season, very helpful.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 hours ago, Spyro said:

So would it not fall on them to make sure the subsidies remained the same? I’m just playing dr il advocate... I’ve always loved the SCC ever since it was the old qualifying cup. Can’t wait to see next season's competition with these new teams, I just hope they make it a success 

The competition has more than doubled in entrants. 70 participants in 2019-20, and looking good for 145 if Livingston United get into the EoSFL (and i've added everything correctly).

That means they've gone from 69 ties to 144 ties. Funding comes from the leagues, sponsorship, and any surplus from the final. Numbers wise as you can see things have scaled up 70 participants = 69 ties, 145 participants = 144 ties. So its entirely possible if the leagues scale up their contributions to match it will work out.

The x factor though is that there's an increased need for travel guarantees compared to previous years. If you look at 2018-19 & 2019-20 there were only two guarantees paid after the 4th Round, with a potential 3rd if East Kilbride & Hill of Beath Hawthorn drew each other in the semi finals. That's because the remaining 20 odd ties all fell within 50 miles. Most of the extreme geographic outliers get knocked out in the early rounds.

Most ties that fall within their own league will be within 50 miles, and there's a decent overlap of clubs between Glasgow area to Edinburgh/South Fife that would fall within 50 miles in inter-league games. Problem is any Ayrshire team through to EoSFL basically ensures travel guarantees having to be paid. And that's where the increased costs lie.

A system where if the gate covers the match officials, travel guarantee, and equal  value of the guarantee to the home side seems like a decent way to avoid the dependence on the SCC covering all travel guarantees.

[FairWeatherFan]

Wasn't sure where the best place would be for this, in the Arthurlie announcement linking up with Barrhead Youth FC there was also mention of creating an amateur side.

While there was a lot of interest in amateurs joining the WoSFL. How many WoSFL/Lowland area sides have amateur teams as well? I know Drumchapel United are keeping their PYM side going. I imagine Glasgow University would have enough players to keep their amateurs going. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

[Sunrise]

Wasn't sure where the best place would be for this, in the Arthurlie announcement linking up with Barrhead Youth FC there was also mention of creating an amateur side.
While there was a lot of interest in amateurs joining the WoSFL. How many WoSFL/Lowland area sides have amateur teams as well? I know Drumchapel United are keeping their PYM side going. I imagine Glasgow University would have enough players to keep their amateurs going. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

We at Largs Thistle have our amateurs.

[Billy XBoswell]

52 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Wasn't sure where the best place would be for this, in the Arthurlie announcement linking up with Barrhead Youth FC there was also mention of creating an amateur side.

While there was a lot of interest in amateurs joining the WoSFL. How many WoSFL/Lowland area sides have amateur teams as well? I know Drumchapel United are keeping their PYM side going. I imagine Glasgow University would have enough players to keep their amateurs going. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

Bonnyton Thistle & Whitletts Vics both have amateur teams 

[Ginaro]

14 hours ago, Burnieman said:

I wonder if the travel subsidies will remain at the same levels with 67 new clubs, and a large increase in ties.

All the more reason to have travel subsidies come from the gate receipts where possible then.

[Burnieman]

All the more reason to have travel subsidies come from the gate receipts where possible then.

It all depends on the finances available to the competition and if it can accommodate the increase in fixtures. I can't see anything changing for next season, there's been no proposals from the influx of former Junior clubs in the east for split gates, they've been happy to go with it.