Have clubs been shafted?

[Wild Winton Rover]

8 minutes ago, glensmad said:

I'm not sure when I ridiculed the PPG system to decide the league winners. I made very little comment on the West Region SJFA's process for awarding league winners. Perhaps you're mixing me up with other posters.

I also don't get how teams who would normally have been promoted from League One and League Two have been disadvantaged, as they will all be at tier 7 which is the equivalent of the old Championship. Nobody has had their status downgraded.

Would you like to answer the question on relegation? The change of position if a threat of legal action is brought? Answer the pertinent questions Peter.

Everything seems to be worked out later in your latest post. Not very professional and making up policy on the hop

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, Tutankhamen said:

Try reading his replies.

 

 

5 minutes ago, glensmad said:

It doesn't matter at this stage how many teams will be relegated. What is important is that it has been confirmed that there will be promotion from the conferences to the top tier at the end of next season. The arithmetic can be worked out later.

 

 

[Tutankhamen]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Forget where I read it but have seen it claimed that the LL thought the SFA would be willing to do the discipline on four WoS conferences next season as a one off in exchange for not doing it on U-20 league games. 

You spent about two years trying to wreck the West Juniors.

You've succeeded.

[glensmad]

Would you like to answer the question on relegation? The change of position if a threat of legal action is brought? Answer the pertinent questions Peter.
Everything seems to be worked out later in your latest post. Not very professional and making up policy on the hop

Sorry, I'm not really understanding what you're asking of me. Perhaps you could clarify ?

[Tutankhamen]

2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

 

 

That's only his interpretation.

The same guy can't tell us why Glencairn are not relegated.

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1 minute ago, Tutankhamen said:

That's only his interpretation.

The same guy can't tell us why Glencairn are not relegated.

 

Well... it's not his interpretation. He directly quoted the WoSFL chairman. Who said there would be promotion.

I really don't understand what you aren't understanding about this.

[glensmad]

That's only his interpretation.
The same guy can't tell us why Glencairn are not relegated.
 

Glencairn are not relegated because the West Region SJFA did not declare promotion and relegation from any of their leagues, they only declared winners. The same applies to Troon and Kirkintilloch Rob Roy, by the way, not just Glencairn.

[caliy]

Current sjfa west junior clubs must feel totally let down. Signed up for something that isn't transpiring. Another flawed strand to the pyramid what are the decision makers thinking.  How can something that's in such an embryonic stage be messed up by those involved so quickly. Officials should be looking at themselves and considering their position in the real world though that won't happen. 

Will this situation who knows in the incompetent world of scottish football .

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

4 minutes ago, caliy said:

Current sjfa west junior clubs must feel totally let down.

I dunno. 19 of them might be quite happy at the recent turn of events

[caliy]

39 minutes ago, Wild Winton Rover said:

Correct the SFA wouldn't sanction it. It was a well known fact. That is why promotion and relegation needs to applied to create a Division of 17 in the first year.

But where was the decision to promote 3 teams made. Not by the members, but as there was a concensus? at a video meeting, without a vote of the members.  Because of a threat of legal action? This is a major mistake in which a new organisation have left themselves open to threats at any time of legal action that they will cave. This has opened the door to Clubs wholly unhappy with this decision to bring their own action. This leaves the interim management of the new Association weak and ineffective and in the views of some  I have spoken to their positions may be untenable. 

Peter you say are not trying to not  trying sell something. If you accept the principle of Promotion, you have to accept the principle of relegation. This would mean that if apply the principal to promote using the West Region PPG as fact, which you ridiculed in other areas, the principal of relegation would apply to Troon, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy and wait Rutherglen Glencairn

Decision making in closed rooms by both the SFA and certain clubs within the new structure have protected the self interest of the few.

The comment from Dave McKenna LL was that no club should be disadvantaged by the current(Covid) crisis. This has only been applied to 6 Clubs namely the 3 named above and Darvel, Blantyre Victoria and Cumbernauld. However a further 6 clubs in promotion positions within other divisions have been disadvantaged. 

The interim management of the new association weak and ineffective  is spot on. This must be some kind of world record. 

[Wild Winton Rover]

12 minutes ago, glensmad said:

15 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

That's only his interpretation.
The same guy can't tell us why Glencairn are not relegated.
 

Glencairn are not relegated because the West Region SJFA did not declare promotion and relegation from any of their leagues, they only declared winners. The same applies to Troon and Kirkintilloch Rob Roy, by the way, not just Glencairn.

Fully aware it applies to Troon and Rob Roy. Your first sentence contradicts the whole concept of promoting Darvel, Blantyre and Cumbernauld.

[glensmad]

Fully aware it applies to Troon and Rob Roy. Your first sentence contradicts the whole concept of promoting Darvel, Blantyre and Cumbernauld.

None of this was our decision. I don't know why you are targeting me personally on this. Well I do actually, but that's not a concern to me.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, beithboy said:

There is no way it will be balanced, as we have seen this season not every team plays the same amount of games at the same time. There is also the problem that you could have played 19 games but not yet played some of the teams in the league.  

We'll have to wait now and see what comes out of this but if it is to be each club playing a round-robin then every club would be playing 19 games and would have played all of the other clubs too so there's no concern there. A split coming after that would be a top group playing for the championship and a bottom group playing to stay up in the Premiership. There wouldn't be many meaningless games in that situation, particularly if the division will be reduced to 16 clubs for 2021/22. If three clubs are to be promoted from the conferences up to the Premiership (who knows?) it would mean 7 clubs being relegated at the end of season 2020/21.

I'd go for two sections of 10 clubs with the top five in each group playing off against each other for the championship and the bottom five from each group playing off to stay in the Premiership. Every match would be meaningful. 

[Dev]

55 minutes ago, Wild Winton Rover said:

Correct the SFA wouldn't sanction it. It was a well known fact. That is why promotion and relegation needs to applied to create a Division of 17 in the first year.

But where was the decision to promote 3 teams made. Not by the members, but as there was a concensus? at a video meeting, without a vote of the members.  Because of a threat of legal action? This is a major mistake in which a new organisation have left themselves open to threats at any time of legal action that they will cave. This has opened the door to Clubs wholly unhappy with this decision to bring their own action. This leaves the interim management of the new Association weak and ineffective and in the views of some  I have spoken to their positions may be untenable. 

Peter you say are not trying to not  trying sell something. If you accept the principle of Promotion, you have to accept the principle of relegation. This would mean that if apply the principal to promote using the West Region PPG as fact, which you ridiculed in other areas, the principal of relegation would apply to Troon, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy and wait Rutherglen Glencairn

Decision making in closed rooms by both the SFA and certain clubs within the new structure have protected the self interest of the few.

The comment from Dave McKenna LL was that no club should be disadvantaged by the current(Covid) crisis. This has only been applied to 6 Clubs namely the 3 named above and Darvel, Blantyre Victoria and Cumbernauld. However a further 6 clubs in promotion positions within other divisions have been disadvantaged. 

Decision making in closed rooms by both the SFA and certain clubs within the new structure have protected the self interest of the few.

Any idea which ex Junior clubs? Or do you consider that this was provoked by the Juniors "management"?

Do you believe that this was cooked up by the SFA and the Juniors? I mean the block of the democratic conferences idea put forward by the WoS.

[Wild Winton Rover]

Just now, glensmad said:

3 minutes ago, Wild Winton Rover said:

Fully aware it applies to Troon and Rob Roy. Your first sentence contradicts the whole concept of promoting Darvel, Blantyre and Cumbernauld.

None of this was our decision. I don't know why you are targeting me personally on this. Well I do actually, but that's not a concern to me.

It was your decision along with a few others as it was reported that an implied consensus from the Conference calls on Tuesday agreed to this. There were a number of other proposals  put forward, but not taken forward. Is it a an open and transparent members Association? No one is targeting you Glens, no one has raised a voice and I'm only carrying out a debate on a point of principal. There is nothing personal in this and I don't know why you think there is. Not the time to play the victim card yet.

[Dev]

36 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

You spent about two years trying to wreck the West Juniors.

You've succeeded.

Surely it's the Juniors management and IM/RP that's wrecked the Juniors?

[glensmad]

It was your decision along with a few others as it was reported that an implied consensus from the Conference calls on Tuesday agreed to this. There were a number of other proposals  put forward, but not taken forward. Is it a an open and transparent members Association? No one is targeting you Glens, no one has raised a voice and I'm only carrying out a debate on a point of principal. There is nothing personal in this and I don't know why you think there is. Not the time to play the victim card yet.

It was not my decision in any way. I have said it repeatedly, I wanted conferences for all 67 clubs. What had transpired this week was mostly out of the clubs' control, however you are correct that the consensus on Tuesday night was very much to pursue a 20-team top tier. Bobby McNamara was representing your club, he will confirm that I asked the meeting if there were any dissenting voices to that proposal and nobody answered.

Anyway, we move on, as the decision has been made and no amount of debate is going to change it. I accept that you weren't having a go at me personally. [emoji106]

[caliy]

16 minutes ago, glensmad said:

19 minutes ago, Wild Winton Rover said:

Fully aware it applies to Troon and Rob Roy. Your first sentence contradicts the whole concept of promoting Darvel, Blantyre and Cumbernauld.

None of this was our decision. I don't know why you are targeting me personally on this. Well I do actually, but that's not a concern to me.

You want a role in the association i take it ? 

[caliy]

9 minutes ago, Wild Winton Rover said:

It was your decision along with a few others as it was reported that an implied consensus from the Conference calls on Tuesday agreed to this. There were a number of other proposals  put forward, but not taken forward. Is it a an open and transparent members Association? No one is targeting you Glens, no one has raised a voice and I'm only carrying out a debate on a point of principal. There is nothing personal in this and I don't know why you think there is. Not the time to play the victim card yet.

So we have a cabal of pyramidees having little conference calls making decisions that effect everyone??  Great

[AsimButtHitsASix]

7 minutes ago, caliy said:

So we have a cabal of pyramidees having little conference calls making decisions that effect everyone??  Great

Representatives of all clubs got together and discussed it. I don't know what your alternative proposal would be