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Burnieman

Carrying holidays forward

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Can anyone confirm that the change to Govt legislation regarding holiday carry and the ability to carry forward for 2 years applies to everyone and not just essential workers?

 

My company are trying to build a narrative that it doesn't apply to them, my contention is that it applies to all companies and therefore every employee has that right.

 

Is there clear guidance from Govt on this, seems a little unclear.

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My understanding was that it was just for essential workers who were unable to take holidays during this period.

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Is that not exactly what it says. You can only carry it forward if you were required to work during this period, and if it is not "reasonably practical" to take your leave as a result. I'm still working (from home), but my job isn't essential and I am not being compelled to work every single day, so it would still be practical for me to take annual leave right now.

Compare that to someone working in a medical job or in a supermarket, who would probably be refused leave given that their workplace needs enough staff to remain open. It would be unreasonable to expect them to lose their leave entitlement as a result.

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Just now, craigkillie said:

Is that not exactly what it says. You can only carry it forward if you were required to work during this period, and if it is not "reasonably practical" to take your leave as a result. I'm still working (from home), but my job isn't essential and I am not being compelled to work every single day, so it would still be practical for me to take annual leave right now.

Compare that to someone working in a medical job or in a supermarket, who would probably be refused leave given that their workplace needs enough staff to remain open. It would be unreasonable to expect them to lose their leave entitlement as a result.

But as Martin Lewis clarified   "CONFIRMED: The ability to carry over unused annual leave for up to 2yrs due to working during Covid-19 is for all workers not just key workers"  "Yes it’s for everyone; technically any firm affected by Covid, but there aren’t many people that doesn’t apply to right now."

So it appears to be for everyone.  My company has furloughed staff and the remainder - which includes myself - are covering.  Nothing to stop us taking annual leave, but given you can't actually go anywhere I guess that is where the point about being affected kicks in, everyone is affected.

Just seeing if there has been any further Govt clarification on the matter.  My guess is that it applies across the board and they aren't going to get involved in adjudicating if a company is affected or not.

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Interesting, my company has been heavily pushing people to take as much leave as possible this year, target is for at least 8 days by the end of June, and half of the remaining entitlement by October.

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This is the stuff from the Government about it:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rules-on-carrying-over-annual-leave-to-be-relaxed-to-support-key-industries-during-covid-19

My take on it (which is almost certainly wrong) is that the law previously didn't let anyone carry their leave over for two years. Now it does. However, there doesn't seem to be a requirement on companies to do this - it merely gives them the option of doing it without breaking the law. It's formed part of my arguments with my work who are rotating who is off on furlough and want me to go off at the same time I have two weeks annual leave booked, but that's another story!

It doesn't seem to be restricted to key workers.

Edited by Stu

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This is the stuff from the Government about it:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rules-on-carrying-over-annual-leave-to-be-relaxed-to-support-key-industries-during-covid-19
My take on it (which is almost certainly wrong) is that the law previously didn't let anyone carry their leave over for two years. Now it does. However, there doesn't seem to be a requirement on companies to do this - it merely gives them the option of doing it without breaking the law. It's formed part of my arguments with my work who are rotating who is off on furlough and want me to go off at the same time I have two weeks annual leave booked, but that's another story!
It doesn't seem to be restricted to key workers.
Glasgow City council certainly aren't committing themselves to allowing any extra leave to he carried forward, and are still telling folk that any 2020 leave has to be used by the end of January 2021. They have also put a block on anyone trying to cancel holidays which they have already entered into the system, which the unions are understandably fighting. It's ludicrous to expect people to take annual leave when the reason they have booked them have been postponed. E.g. one of my wife's colleagues had booked last Monday off as she was supposed to do the Kiltwalk on the Sunday, but they wouldn't let her cancel that one single day.

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I don't really have a problem with having to take my fortnight off in June, my issue is my boss trying to schedule furlough for the same period and not let me cancel my leave to take later. He sees it as me getting a week free as I'll be furloughed for three weeks rather than on holiday for a fortnight, however I pointed out some people will be getting three weeks free as they have no holidays planned for another few months.

Looks like it's just tough luck, although they're putting people off in three week blocks. My fortnight is the last week of one block and the start of another so I look bet I'm mysteriously allowed to adjust my holidays slightly when I bring that up!

Edited by Stu

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I don't really have a problem with having to take my fortnight off in June, my issue is my boss trying to schedule furlough for the same period and not let me cancel my leave to take later. He sees it as me getting a week free as I'll be furloughed for three weeks rather than on holiday for a fortnight, however I pointed out some people will be getting three weeks free as they have no holidays planned for another few months.
Looks like it's just tough luck, although they're putting people off in three week blocks. My fortnight is the last week of one block and the start of another so I look bet I'm mysteriously allowed to adjust my holidays slightly when I bring that up!


You surely can’t be furloughed and have leave allowance removed? Your leave entitlement should be recalculated once the furlough is taken into account, in much the same way as a part-time worker eg if you do 40 hours a week and get 35 days holiday, someone doing 20 hours should get 17.5 days holiday.

So in this case if you have for example 35 days holiday divided over 52 weeks, that would be 0.67 days entitlement per week. Multiply that figure by the 3 weeks on furlough which gives 2.01 days - that should be what comes off your leave entitlement, not ten days. You can’t be put on holiday when you’re not asked to work, you should get holiday pay that you’re legally entitled to.

Do your own research obviously but that seems outrageous to me and there’s no way I’d be standing for it. If your boss just wants to cheat the system and claim furlough money to pay you then it’s for you to decide if that’s okay, but you should be asking for 100% pay for the first two weeks.

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For my work who have carried on more or less like normal, you take holidays when you had booked them. Holidays for us go from April to April . 
If off for 12 weeks and return in june, 2 weeks of that will be used as holiday.
You cant carry  holidays over

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1 hour ago, Paco said:

 


You surely can’t be furloughed and have leave allowance removed? Your leave entitlement should be recalculated once the furlough is taken into account, in much the same way as a part-time worker eg if you do 40 hours a week and get 35 days holiday, someone doing 20 hours should get 17.5 days holiday.

So in this case if you have for example 35 days holiday divided over 52 weeks, that would be 0.67 days entitlement per week. Multiply that figure by the 3 weeks on furlough which gives 2.01 days - that should be what comes off your leave entitlement, not ten days. You can’t be put on holiday when you’re not asked to work, you should get holiday pay that you’re legally entitled to.

Do your own research obviously but that seems outrageous to me and there’s no way I’d be standing for it. If your boss just wants to cheat the system and claim furlough money to pay you then it’s for you to decide if that’s okay, but you should be asking for 100% pay for the first two weeks.

 

I won't bore you with all the details but it's not as straightforward as that. I raised it with the union but it looks like legally there's nothing can be done. 

Our salaries have all been cut by 10% and anyone on furlough is getting theirs topped up so they get the same whether they're working or not so it's hardly the end of the world. The worst that will happen is I'll get a week's extra holiday and other folk will luck into three. Not great for me but falls into the first world problems category.

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8 hours ago, WeAreElgin said:

Interesting, my company has been heavily pushing people to take as much leave as possible this year, target is for at least 8 days by the end of June, and half of the remaining entitlement by October.

I am off next week and my boss asked me to come in,the answer was no thanks.

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On 01/05/2020 at 18:00, Paco said:

 


You surely can’t be furloughed and have leave allowance removed? Your leave entitlement should be recalculated once the furlough is taken into account, in much the same way as a part-time worker eg if you do 40 hours a week and get 35 days holiday, someone doing 20 hours should get 17.5 days holiday.

So in this case if you have for example 35 days holiday divided over 52 weeks, that would be 0.67 days entitlement per week. Multiply that figure by the 3 weeks on furlough which gives 2.01 days - that should be what comes off your leave entitlement, not ten days. You can’t be put on holiday when you’re not asked to work, you should get holiday pay that you’re legally entitled to.

Do your own research obviously but that seems outrageous to me and there’s no way I’d be standing for it. If your boss just wants to cheat the system and claim furlough money to pay you then it’s for you to decide if that’s okay, but you should be asking for 100% pay for the first two weeks.

 

Furloughing shouldn’t have any impact on holiday entitlement at all imo.  More so if employers are not making up the 20% of wages.

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On 01/05/2020 at 16:31, Stu said:

I don't really have a problem with having to take my fortnight off in June, my issue is my boss trying to schedule furlough for the same period and not let me cancel my leave to take later. He sees it as me getting a week free as I'll be furloughed for three weeks rather than on holiday for a fortnight, however I pointed out some people will be getting three weeks free as they have no holidays planned for another few months.

Looks like it's just tough luck, although they're putting people off in three week blocks. My fortnight is the last week of one block and the start of another so I look bet I'm mysteriously allowed to adjust my holidays slightly when I bring that up!

Your work are c***s. 

You're not getting a free week, you're losing 4 (or 2, if you're a glass half full person). 

If I was you, I'd be pushing on this as much as possible. 

 

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7 hours ago, Dele said:

Your work are c***s. 

You're not getting a free week, you're losing 4 (or 2, if you're a glass half full person). 

If I was you, I'd be pushing on this as much as possible. 

 

This. Complete scumbags trying to furlough you during a two week pre-approved leave period and cheat the system. 

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Work are trying to force me to take a fortnight off before June but all im going to do is sit in the house and im already in the house as Im wfh.

They're trying to play it big on mental health, looking after staff etc and people I work with are saying they would prefer to work as it keeps them busy, work are saying naw you need to take it.

Two faced c*nts they don't give a shit.

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I've got 6 weeks to use before the end of the year. Work are only now pushing me to start using them. Ordinarily I wouldn't mind, but I'm in a long distance relationship and if there's even a chance that we might be able to travel this year I want to save up as much as possible for that.

Will probably take a couple of days to keep them happy.

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On 08/05/2020 at 11:26, ali_91 said:

My work are doing similar, 35% by July, 70% by September. 

I’d prefer if they didn’t go on about the mental health aspect as clearly it would be much better for my mental health to take two weeks later in the year when we are able to do slightly more than it would be to take holidays whilst we are still severely restricted in what we can do, but I completely understand why they are doing it. 

You can’t expect businesses to just let everyone keep their annual leave until November and then all take it at the same time, completely unrealistic. 

No you cant expect everyone to take it the same time or carry over 3 or 4 weeks into next year but a bit of leeway and recognising that a week would be reasonable to carry and let people take longer holidays next year.

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On 04/05/2020 at 15:55, chocolateankles said:

Work are trying to force me to take a fortnight off before June but all im going to do is sit in the house and im already in the house as Im wfh.

They're trying to play it big on mental health, looking after staff etc and people I work with are saying they would prefer to work as it keeps them busy, work are saying naw you need to take it.

Two faced c*nts they don't give a shit.

My work sent an email to all employees yesterday that was all a bit vague and open to interpretation but full of bullshit like ‘Take your annual leave! Rest and recharge! It’s good for your physical and mental health and well-being!’ 
My boss then sent an appointment this morning for a Skype call tomorrow morning.
I have no doubts whatsoever that senior management will be freaking out that there’s been a spate of cancelled leave already and that we’ll be getting instructed tomorrow to tell all our teams if leave is booked they’ve to take it and can’t cancel it. 
I get that business needs mean we can’t have loads of folk with weeks of annual leave left later on in the year, but I despise how senior management email out their rancid ‘We care about you!’ patter before TL’s inevitably get told to piss on folks cornflakes.

Edited by 8MileBU

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