Scottish championship team of the year /BBC picker

[Ludo*1]

The selection is a bit of a shambles tbh. Dundee's best two players this season have been Marshall and McGhee yet neither is included in the defensive options yet Christophe Berra (Who has been excellent tbf) with his solid 6 games is included as is Cammy Kerr who's had an utterly horrendous season.

Not that I'm saying they'd necessarily get in the divisional 11 - but if they are mucking up stuff I know about my own team, then who else is being missed?

Shankland needs a foil ala Moffat and Clark. His form since Clark has been injured whilst still excellent certainly tailed off somewhat. I'd have Shankland & Clark as a two or Shankland, Clark & Nisbet for a three. Individually Nisbet is better than Clark - depends what way you judge it IMO.

[HoBNob]

25 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Just here to say it annoys the f**k out of me that the Dunfermline badge isnt centralised.

We were shit this year, we don't deserve it to be centralised. 

I don't get why Ashcroft is an option, when our two best defenders have been Martin and Comrie. I'd definitely have as the top two left backs, between him and Harvie. 

 

 

[D'Jaffo]

We were shit this year, we don't deserve it to be centralised. 
I don't get why Ashcroft is an option, when our two best defenders have been Martin and Comrie. I'd definitely have as the top two left backs, between him and Harvie. 
 
 

Comrie is the best right back I’ve seen this season. Liam Smith was brilliant for us last season but hasn’t shown the same form this season. I put Ricky Little because I’ve seen him play there before and the Arbroath team have the second best defence in the league.

[HoBNob]

3 minutes ago, Speroni*1 said:

 His form since Clark has been injured whilst still excellent certainly tailed off somewhat. I'd have Shankland & Clark as a two or Shankland, Clark & Nisbet for a three. Individually Nisbet is better than Clark - depends what way you judge it IMO.

It's not though. Clark while being a very good championship striker, hasn't got anywhere near the all round game of Nisbet. 

Having watched both at the Pars it's not even a contest to say who's the better, more intelligent player. Clark in our current side wouldn't score more than ten goals. During his time at Dunfermline, and from what I've seen when I've watched him for United Clark is a very good championship level goalscorer, his all around game outwith that though isn't that impressive (compared to say Moffat of the past), it's OK because he's a good player but I don't get at all why he's suddenly being hailed as a great second striker. 

 

Shankland and Nisbet as the front two, anyone else is at it. 

[HoBNob]

Inverness seem really underrepresented, Welsh and Walsh were good against us when they played. McCart deserves a mention for centre back at the very least. 

With the players there I went for 

Obviously reflected on how teams have done against Dunfermline. Dundee are 3rd but the only time I've seen them has been at EEP and in the Derby games, wouldn't surprise me if that was their worst performances of the season. Ayr have been an attacking force at times but against Dunfermline they didn't turn it on at all. 

[TheGoon]

A lot of these teams don’t include Nicky Cadden and that is incorrect.

[da_no_1]

I'm sure he has but I dont consider him part of the best front two if only picking two strikers. 

You're thinking about this waaaaay too much SD.

The two best strikers are Nisbet and Shankland.

[Skyline Drifter]

45 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

It's not though. Clark while being a very good championship striker, hasn't got anywhere near the all round game of Nisbet. 

Having watched both at the Pars it's not even a contest to say who's the better, more intelligent player. Clark in our current side wouldn't score more than ten goals. During his time at Dunfermline, and from what I've seen when I've watched him for United Clark is a very good championship level goalscorer, his all around game outwith that though isn't that impressive (compared to say Moffat of the past), it's OK because he's a good player but I don't get at all why he's suddenly being hailed as a great second striker. 

 

Shankland and Nisbet as the front two, anyone else is at it. 

Dunfermline fans are to be fair, better placed to judge the two of them than anyone. At least in terms of their recent careers.

I have a degree of bias in that Clark used to play with us (albeit 7 years ago) and Nisbet never has but you can only call it on what you've seen. Nisbet is plainly good. You don't get as many goals as he has in the past two seasons without being. Maybe if I saw him every week I'd stick him down first. But in terms of what I personally saw in the last season (and to be fair I'm probably also judging Nisbet a bit on his playoff games against us for Raith last year too) I'd have Clark in the team before him if I'm only allowed two strikers. I didn't get to the away games at United and Dunfermline this year. They each scored one against us. NIsbet was quiet in the early season 1-1 draw at Palmerston and only played the last half hour of the 2nd game (I don't think he was fully fit either). He did nothing in the playoffs last season either ( i know it's not part of the criteria but it's an influence inevitably. It's also within the last 12 months). Clark didn't start our 4-0 win at Palmerston against United either, only coming on when the game was long gone. He did play the other two United wins though. He also showed up well on tv when I saw him, and United inevitably featured on tv more than Dunfermline did.

It's fairly redundant anyway, since the dearth of decent midfielders means I changed my formation to include him instead of Allan Forrest on second thought.

[HoBNob]

6 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

A lot of these teams don’t include Nicky Cadden and that is incorrect.

Good player, Nesbit always seem to play well against Dunfermline also. 

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Dunfermline fans are to be fair, better placed to judge the two of them than anyone. At least in terms of their recent careers.

I have a degree of bias in that Clark used to play with us (albeit 7 years ago) and Nisbet never has but you can only call it on what you've seen. Nisbet is plainly good. You don't get as many goals as he has in the past two seasons without being. Maybe if I saw him every week I'd stick him down first. But in terms of what I personally saw in the last season (and to be fair I'm probably also judging Nisbet a bit on his playoff games against us for Raith last year too) I'd have Clark in the team before him if I'm only allowed two strikers. I didn't get to the away games at United and Dunfermline this year. They each scored one against us. NIsbet was quiet in the early season 1-1 draw at Palmerston and only played the last half hour of the 2nd game (I don't think he was fully fit either). He did nothing in the playoffs last season either ( i know it's not part of the criteria but it's an influence inevitably. It's also within the last 12 months). Clark didn't start our 4-0 win at Palmerston against United either, only coming on when the game was long gone. He did play the other two United wins though. He also showed up well on tv when I saw him, and United inevitably featured on tv more than Dunfermline did.

It's fairly redundant anyway, since the dearth of decent midfielders means I changed my formation to include him instead of Allan Forrest on second thought.

I'm a big fan of Clark, it annoys me that the relationship has deteriorated so much between him and Dunfermline because he done us a very good turn, scored some incredibly important goals and before Nisbet came on the scene was our best striker for such a long time, he was probably better than Kirk for me. Would've liked to see him back at Dunfermline in the future but I get the impression he's not a fan. 

 

Despite that Nisbet is better, based on their times at Dunfermline and what they done this season. In a poorer Dunfermline side with a worst strike partner Nisbet scores more goals and influences the game more. A criticism of Clark would be sometimes you wouldn't know he was playing, until he scored. He did score quite regularly though so that was cool. You also wouldn't play Clark as a lone striker, however you can with Nisbit. We certainly weren't knocking back 500k offers for Clark. 

This shouldn't be taken as a criticism of Clark, he is a very, very good championship striker. I hope he steps upto the Premier and does well. 

The game at Palmerston Nisbet wasnt fully fit/it was the day after the transfer window shut and we didn't let him leave. Head apparently wasn't right. 

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

Aye I couldn’t find any central midfielders that I thought really stood out. Kelly for us maybe but he’s been very hot and cold.

Yeah, I hadn't really noticed it until looking my way through the options but the Championship has been really poor for midfielders this year. Our fans have moaned all year about the lack of quality in our midfield but it's a whole League problem really. Even United haven't really had a consistently decent central midfielder. Graham Dorrans SHOULD be standing out at this level but he hasn't really. Not as far as I've seen anyway. Aaron Doran ALWAYS seems to be excellent against us. He was my 1st pick. Iain Flannigan has been very good against us too too so he went in. Then I struggled. I'm not convinced Kelly is all that good. He's really in on the strength of the first game at Somerset where he played well and won it with a worldy of a shot from outside the box. By the time I put Forrest in my original selection I was struggling. I don't think he's been that good this season has he? Was he not injured for part of it. I have a feeling he was better last year but I was struggling for decent left width. Dundee and Dunfermline fans can take the piss all they want, and he's clearly defensively lacking, but for about four months or so Bakhtaoui was terrific for us and livened up our creativity no end, including the game where he pretty much single handedly took United apart.

[Skyline Drifter]

9 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

You also wouldn't play Clark as a lone striker, however you can with Nisbit.

Agreed, I think Clark is a very good forward in a pair and can play either the support role or the main scorer one. He was the main scorer with us, and with you, but has taken on the partner one at United with Shankland. I would have taken Nisbet ahead of him every time though if I was picking a solo striker. I might even have him ahead of Shankland for a solo striker to be honest. Shankland's best spells have come either with Moffat creating for him or alongside Clark and with the best team in the division setting him up.

[Rob1885]

Cant even spell Darren Brownlie correctly ffs

[19QOS19]

Quietly confident that 11 would walk the division.

[rb123!]

Fellow Ayr fans i'm sure will join me in having a chukle at hot head loose cannon Muirhead being in these teams lol. 

[D'Jaffo]

Yeah, I hadn't really noticed it until looking my way through the options but the Championship has been really poor for midfielders this year. Our fans have moaned all year about the lack of quality in our midfield but it's a whole League problem really. Even United haven't really had a consistently decent central midfielder. Graham Dorrans SHOULD be standing out at this level but he hasn't really. Not as far as I've seen anyway. Aaron Doran ALWAYS seems to be excellent against us. He was my 1st pick. Iain Flannigan has been very good against us too too so he went in. Then I struggled. I'm not convinced Kelly is all that good. He's really in on the strength of the first game at Somerset where he played well and won it with a worldy of a shot from outside the box. By the time I put Forrest in my original selection I was struggling. I don't think he's been that good this season has he? Was he not injured for part of it. I have a feeling he was better last year but I was struggling for decent left width. Dundee and Dunfermline fans can take the piss all they want, and he's clearly defensively lacking, but for about four months or so Bakhtaoui was terrific for us and livened up our creativity no end, including the game where he pretty much single handedly took United apart.

Forrest was injured most of last season although when he did play he played well and without him and Kerr (who also got injured) we struggled to create chances. Imo he was probably the best player in the league this season, barring Shankland, until November/December which is pretty normal for him as he’s still very inconsistent. He’ll do fine at Livi I think but he’ll need time.

Kelly was the same. He’s the first player to actually force McCall to change from a 442 which was surprising. Would’ve been stuck out on the wing otherwise. He’s better as a 10 but has been playing deeper at times because of Kerr getting injured.

[D'Jaffo]

Quietly confident that 11 would walk the division.

Just me that thinks Shaun Rooney is absolutely rank rotten?

FYI I am well aware this is a piss take.

[Skyline Drifter]

20 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

Just me that thinks Shaun Rooney is absolutely rank rotten?

Rooney is an interesting one.  Physically he is a terrific athlete. He is 6'4", pacey and wins anything that comes near him in the air. He isnt without ability. He has decent feet, good touch and a tendency to go on mazy runs where the only way to stop him is to foul him (or just stand back, open the gates, and let him run right out of the stadium). He is a serious set piece threat in the opposition box, worth at least 4 or 5 goals a season. As a full back he can step into midfield and cover centre back in an emergency. He has all the attributes to be a top division footballer.

BUT having watched him play full back for us for a year I have never seen any defensive player so consistently positionally unaware. He got his line wrong all the time, got wrong side of his opponent constantly and then tended to panic and try to make up for it by either pulling people back or making rash challenges where he cant get the ball. He gave away regular stupid free kicks in shooting range and we lost a lot of goals from them. In the end, although Rooney left under freedom of contract, Scott Mercer was the steadier option at right back. 

Because of all the ability he clearly has a succession of managers have believed they can work on his defending and have a real asset. Perhaps John Robertson is the one who succeeded. I havent seen enough of him in the last year. I havent been up to Inverness for a couple of years. I cant recall him playing in the game at Palmerston either. He clearly has found something more consistent if Tommy Wright has given him a two year contract at Premier level. 

[Dunning1874]

Rooney is going to be yet another player who'll be mince everywhere he plays in his career other than Inverness. Hopeless for Dunfermline in League One and QoS in the Championship, goes to ICT and suddenly turns into a competent Championship player. He'll be shite at St Johnstone and back in the Championship in a couple of years, being crap wherever he is until he finds his way back to Caley Thistle.

For various other examples of this phenomenon - some without the shite before part and just starting with good at ICT, some without leaving or going through the recovery phase yet - see the careers of James Vincent, Josh Meekings,  Miles Storey, Jordan White, Tom Walsh, Coll Donaldson, Joe Chalmers and many more.

[RandomGuy.]

5 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He clearly has found something more consistent if Tommy Wright has given him a two year contract at Premier level. 

Wright loves a RB project.

Best example is Darnell Fisher. Had the technical attributes to be a top player, but literally everything else was missing, to the point where he would end up wandering into the CM position when the ball was at the other side of the pitch and be miles out of position. Genuinely one of the worst RBs we've had in that early spell.

After 6 months he'd started to turn the corner, by the end of the season he was scoring goals aswell as being rock solid. Now a regular for Preston and being linked with moves to the EPL.

Suspect he sees Rooneys physical attributes as a foundation, and then he can work on everything else and build himself a quality RB.

FWIW he tried this with Comrie, but mentally, and physically, he was too weak for the top flight. It wasnt all Comries fault but he had a run where Jordan Jones demolished him, and then Celtic scored about 4 goals down is his side in 10 minutes. Jones destroyed him yet again and that was pretty much him done at Saints.

Edited April 28, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[TheScarf]

47 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Rooney is going to be yet another player who'll be mince everywhere he plays in his career other than Inverness. Hopeless for Dunfermline in League One and QoS in the Championship, goes to ICT and suddenly turns into a competent Championship player. He'll be shite at St Johnstone and back in the Championship in a couple of years, being crap wherever he is until he finds his way back to Caley Thistle.

For various other examples of this phenomenon - some without the shite before part and just starting with good at ICT, some without leaving or going through the recovery phase yet - see the careers of James Vincent, Josh Meekings,  Miles Storey, Jordan White, Tom Walsh, Coll Donaldson, Joe Chalmers and many more.

Its a growing phenomenon within Scottish football fans that a player seems to have the best spell of his career at The Caley. 

Our fans noticed it a few years ago when we got promoted back to the old SPL in 2010, our players left and turned to shite at every other club. 

I think Craig Dargo leaving before the above actually, was when I noticed it, in 2007. 

Was unreal for 2 years then turned into a joke at St Mirren. And then he kind of petered out as a lower league jobber.

 

Edit - Sean Welsh only played about 10 games this season and was still better than nearly every midfield pick I've seen on here. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by TheScarf