WoSFL Licensing

[Arthurlie1981]

Yeah agree but you keep on about what these self preservation teams did, yeah we all know those teams fecked everyone over and will continue to do so as they have hown their true colours.  Who gives a fck what Brechin's and Stenny teams think, their chairman is only interested in their club and attitude of feck football in Scotland long team but guess what, his team are one of the teams who I expect to be relegated soon so he wont have a say and |Brechin, I get the feeling when, not if, relegated that they will be going to the Highland league after the shit he pulled. The teams who are promoted from the highland league/Lowland league playoff will I expect vote for 2  relegation is best.  The SFA Blazers are not blind to it, they are going with the old fashioned SPFL 2 teams but if everything is sorted lower down and proving stronger teams then eventually they will give in
 
and yes 10 team league is no use as a 14 or 16  SPFL2 would be better.
 
These are the things that need to get sorted or tweaked and as I aid before, which most of us know, get our houses in order, highland league with the Aberdeen section, the Lowland league with new additions, Lothian and East junior team joining and the last to sort out is the Tayside then there is no looking back 

It’s got nothing to do with the SFA how many teams a relegated from league 2. All they do is administer the playoff game between club 42 and the winner of the LL & HL playoff game.

The reason I bring up what these clubs do is because the current voting structure gives them a veto. It would require almost a whole change of teams in the division to change the current structure. I agree with you it is likely Edinburgh City would vote for change of the current clubs but firstly it has to be put forward as an option but it hasn’t only I would guess that is because it has little change of succeeding.

The other suggestions I don’t think need to happen. Clubs shouldn’t be forced to join against their will. If clubs from the north juniors/north caley want to join then great but there is still a place for clubs to sit outside the pyramid if they want. Same goes for the East Juniors.

I think we have to remember that we are less than a decade into this and only 2 clubs have ever been promoted. I agree that when it gets stronger with more EoS and hopefully WoS clubs are knocking on the door then it should 100% change but until then I think it will have to be the status quo.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

2 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

It’s got nothing to do with the SFA how many teams a relegated from league 2. All they do is administer the playoff game between club 42 and the winner of the LL & HL playoff game.

The reason I bring up what these clubs do is because the current voting structure gives them a veto. It would require almost a whole change of teams in the division to change the current structure. I agree with you it is likely Edinburgh City would vote for change of the current clubs but firstly it has to be put forward as an option but it hasn’t only I would guess that is because it has little change of succeeding.

The other suggestions I don’t think need to happen. Clubs shouldn’t be forced to join against their will. If clubs from the north juniors/north caley want to join then great but there is still a place for clubs to sit outside the pyramid if they want. Same goes for the East Juniors.

I think we have to remember that we are less than a decade into this and only 2 clubs have ever been promoted. I agree that when it gets stronger with more EoS and hopefully WoS clubs are knocking on the door then it should 100% change but until then I think it will have to be the status quo.

 

A couple of things
I don't think any change that will happen the way we view it on this subject until a number of years.

Yes we all know the SFA are the admistrator of all of it but they know its harming Scottish Football and you never know they may look at ways of changing it, even though most of them look after themselves. Wishful thinking but its nice to think

I never said anything about the junior teams, (Aberdeen, Tayside, Lothian, EOS etc...), being forced into the pyramid, far from it. I'm an advocate for the pyramid but if a team or group of teams don't want to join it then I say - fine, don't.

The part in Bold that I marked, agree 100% and each year I expect a LL or HL team to be promoted and genuinely expect the clubs to go down being Brechin City, Stenhousemuir, Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers unless they have an epiphany and realise they have to get their finger out of their ass and improve.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Bestsinceslicebread]

Does  anyone have a list or a link that takes you to the full list of criteria which will allow a team to pass licensing in WOSFL ?

[Stag Nation]

4 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Does  anyone have a list or a link that takes you to the full list of criteria which will allow a team to pass licensing in WOSFL ?

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/club-licensing/

[Arthurlie1981]

A couple of things
I don't think any change that will happen the way we view it on this subject until a number of years.
Yes we all know the SFA are the admistrator of all of it but they know its harming Scottish Football and you never know they may look at ways of changing it, even though most of them look after themselves. Wishful thinking but its nice to think
I never said anything about the junior teams, (Aberdeen, Tayside, Lothian, EOS etc...), being forced into the pyramid, far from it. I'm an advocate for the pyramid but if a team or group of teams don't want to join it then I say - fine, don't.
The part in Bold that I marked, agree 100% and each year I expect a LL or HL team to be promoted and genuinely expect the clubs to go down being Brechin City, Stenhousemuir, Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers unless they have an epiphany and realise they have to get their finger out of their ass and improve.

I took what you meant when you mentioned the Aberdeen section of the highland league to mean the juniors as that is where the teams would come from. If that’s not what you meant then I apologise. Where would the teams come from then. I get your point on about the SFA but the haven’t shown any willingness to engage on these issues in the past when it come to reconstruction. I guess that’s down to not wanting to annoy clubs who they might need for their own issues further down the line.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

I took what you meant when you mentioned the Aberdeen section of the highland league to mean the juniors as that is where the teams would come from. If that’s not what you meant then I apologise. Where would the teams come from then. I get your point on about the SFA but the haven’t shown any willingness to engage on these issues in the past when it come to reconstruction. I guess that’s down to not wanting to annoy clubs who they might need for their own issues further down the line.

 

No, sorry its not been conveyed the way I intended, so no need to apologize, its me who should have made sure what I was trying to explain could be easily conveyed.
Yes I meant the Aberdeen juniors and no I don't mean them forced to join the pyramid and yes I'd love to see them join the pyramid on their own accord with an Aberdeen league under the Highland. I will say I'm not to up to date with the difference in standard of the Highland league team and Aberdeen junior teams
I'm not privy to the workings and ins and outs but have an understanding of the travelling as I'm up and down every week in my job to Aberdeen n shire and the highlands.

 

Yeah we are in agreement of no willingness from certain people in the SFA but that's as you say, wanting to annoy clubs, or even looking after their own jobs or just haven't got the balls to get it sorted.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Bestsinceslicebread

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 I get your point on about the SFA but the haven’t shown any willingness to engage on these issues in the past when it come to reconstruction. I guess that’s down to not wanting to annoy clubs who they might need for their own issues further down the line.

If the SFA forced clubs into leagues, they'd be responsible for them. Look at how they've tried to keep the scope of the JPP minimised, rather than overseeing all the pyramid leagues.

[Killie65]

The new lock down might mean some teams want be ready for the licensing inspection in February or will the SFA change the date

[rockson]

23 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Several.

As an example take the lowest National League of France that relegates 4 from 18 (22.222%). That's so they can promote the 4 regional division champions each year.

That still leaves 14 teams not relegated - not just 8. And the SPFL isn't relegating to 4 regional divisions.

[FairWeatherFan]

56 minutes ago, rockson said:

That still leaves 14 teams not relegated - not just 8. And the SPFL isn't relegating to 4 regional divisions.

That wasn't the question though was it?

Do any other leagues relegate 20% of its membership every year? Yes, several. Some even more than 20%

And the point about France promoting it's 4 highest regional champions, while relegating 4 from their lowest National division. That was just to further illustrate that it wouldn't be a unique for Scotland to provide 2 promotion spots for their two highest regional champions, while relegating 2 from their lowest National division. Since numbers wise it's comparable.

EDIT: Since the 2/10 seemed to become an issue over 20%. I give you the lowest National division of Estonia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esiliiga_B

A 10 team league where the bottom 2 teams are automatically relegated. 3rd team in a relegation playoff where they face the winner of an earlier round played between the 2 regional runners up.

Edited January 4, 2021 by FairWeatherFan

[rockson]

23 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

That wasn't the question though was it?

Do any other leagues relegate 20% of its membership every year? Yes, several. Some even more than 20%

And the point about France promoting it's 4 highest regional champions, while relegating 4 from their lowest National division. That was just to further illustrate that it wouldn't be a unique for Scotland to provide 2 promotion spots for their two highest regional champions, while relegating 2 from their lowest National division. Since numbers wise it's comparable.

EDIT: Since the 2/10 seemed to become an issue over 20%. I give you the lowest National division of Estonia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esiliiga_B

A 10 team league where the bottom 2 teams are automatically relegated. 3rd team in a relegation playoff where they face the winner of an earlier round played between the 2 regional runners up.

No, it wasn't the question; but it was a reason why it's unlikely to happen in Scotland. The bottom SPFL division would have to be a lot bigger than ten clubs for even one automatic relegation, never mind two, to come  about.

(As an aside I'll note that relegating two from Scotland's lowest national division would effectively give a free pass to the Highland League Champs every year as for the moment it doesn't look like any SPFL club - Brechin perhaps apart [and they're dead against moving to the HL]  or, just, maybe, Elgin City - would be relegated to it. Not that the Shire or Berwick made a good fist of competing in the LL.)

That Estonian league has only been running for 7 years. It lacks the history of the SPFL's predecessors.

2/10 is not only an issue if it's over 20%. Relegating 2 clubs is an issue in itself. The Football League in England only relegates two from its bottom divison of 24 (1/12, not 1/5) and you expect the SPFL to relegate the same absolute number of clubs each year? Even one automatic relegation is an issue in the short term.

I suspect that, as happened  in England, relegation from the SPFL won't be expanded till a relegated club has managed to get back up.

[Burnieman]

12 minutes ago, rockson said:

No, it wasn't the question; but it was a reason why it's unlikely to happen in Scotland. The bottom SPFL division would have to be a lot bigger than ten clubs for even one automatic relegation, never mind two, to come  about.

That's wholly wrong though isn't it, it's just a bare faced exercise in self preservation by the SPFL lower clubs who know they're in big trouble.

[stanley]

Don't think it being a 10-team division should make any difference. It wasn't too long ago that there were two teams automatically going down from the old first and second divisions.

[FairWeatherFan]

52 minutes ago, rockson said:

No, it wasn't the question; but it was a reason why it's unlikely to happen in Scotland. The bottom SPFL division would have to be a lot bigger than ten clubs for even one automatic relegation, never mind two, to come  about.

(As an aside I'll note that relegating two from Scotland's lowest national division would effectively give a free pass to the Highland League Champs every year as for the moment it doesn't look like any SPFL club - Brechin perhaps apart [and they're dead against moving to the HL]  or, just, maybe, Elgin City - would be relegated to it. Not that the Shire or Berwick made a good fist of competing in the LL.)

That Estonian league has only been running for 7 years. It lacks the history of the SPFL's predecessors.

2/10 is not only an issue if it's over 20%. Relegating 2 clubs is an issue in itself. The Football League in England only relegates two from its bottom divison of 24 (1/12, not 1/5) and you expect the SPFL to relegate the same absolute number of clubs each year? Even one automatic relegation is an issue in the short term.

I suspect that, as happened  in England, relegation from the SPFL won't be expanded till a relegated club has managed to get back up.

I don't expect it. I'm just pointing out that there are multiple leagues that relegate 20% or more and do so even when there's a membership of 10 clubs.

England doesn't matter, Estonia doesn't matter, France doesn't matter. It's getting to the point where Scottish football should be relegating the bottom National league club automatically, after decades of not providing a chance for clubs to progress from non-league football on the field.

[rockson]

23 hours ago, stanley said:

Don't think it being a 10-team division should make any difference. It wasn't too long ago that there were two teams automatically going down from the old first and second divisions.

My point is that it absolutely does make a difference.  (And those top two divisions had 18/19 teams in them, not ten.)

[Burnieman]

4 minutes ago, rockson said:

My point is that it absolutely does make a difference.  (And those top two divisions had 18/19 teams in them, not ten.)

Makes a difference to whom?

[rockson]

Just now, Burnieman said:

Makes a difference to whom?

To the clubs who are in danger of losing their long-held status in the nationwide leagues.  Brechin were in tier 2 of the SPFL only three seasons ago and Cowdenbeath were there a couple  of seasons before that. There's a much greater chance of relegation from a ten team league than an 18 team one.

[Burnieman]

Just now, rockson said:

To the clubs who are in danger of losing their long-held status in the nationwide leagues.  Brechin were in tier 2 of the SPFL only three seasons ago and Cowdenbeath were there a couple  of seasons before that. There's a much greater chance of relegation from a ten team league than an 18 team one.

That's football isn't it, nobody has a right to retain a place in any league, long-held or otherwise.  This is just self-preservation, like Trump trying to cling to power when he knows it's all over.

[stanley]

2 minutes ago, rockson said:

To the clubs who are in danger of losing their long-held status in the nationwide leagues.  Brechin were in tier 2 of the SPFL only three seasons ago and Cowdenbeath were there a couple  of seasons before that. There's a much greater chance of relegation from a ten team league than an 18 team one.

When I say the old first and second division, I mean the current Championship and League One under their old name (not the original first division when it was the top league). Those were ten-team leagues with two automatic relegation spots until years ago when the playoffs were introduced.

[Andy groundhopper]

Wouldn't surprise me to see the spfl actually increase the 42 to say 44 in a bid to preserve their status and reduce the fear of relegation. Good luck to the progressive WOSFL - one question : Are the top six West clubs bigger than the bottom spfl 6 ? Definitely a yes, which is why the big boys are scared - gone a bit stale so get relegated ! !