WoSFL Licensing

[glensmad]

Do Clydebank and Yorker own Holm Park ???  Or do they just rent it 
With regards the SPFL2 clubs whilst I agree with you would need a rule change and Turkeys aren’t going to vote for Xmas 

Holm Park is owned by Holm Park Community Trust. Yoker and Clydebank are equal tenants.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 minute ago, Lobby Dossar said:

Do Clydebank and Yorker own Holm Park ???  Or do they just rent it 

With regards the SPFL2 clubs whilst I agree with you would need a rule change and Turkeys aren’t going to vote for Xmas 

Think they lease it from some community/council group

Yeah Lobby I agree with you about turkey voting for xmas but eventually it will change. its harming Scottish Football and are the blazers prepared to allow it to happen, They are at the moment but eventually there will be a shift change and it will happen.    Want to see everything under SP|FL 2 get their houses in order and organized>

lets put it this way, the teams that have went up in recent years, will they vote on the SPFL side or the lower league sides, Edinburgh City for example, which way would they vote. I could see them voting for promotion and relegation between Highland/Lowland league and SPFL and each year the promotion wize, I will expect the winners to be form the Highland and Lowland league and I'm sure the team moving up would vote for the lower levels having access.  Quite clearly if Brechin vote against it and they finish bottom, then they will play off against the winner of the Highland league or the Lowland league and id put my money on Brechin going down, Their if their elf centered chairman or Stenhousemuir self centered chairman has voted against lower level team coming up then their teams will find it years and years before they ever come back up, which personally I will love.

East Stirling and Berwick Rangers are in it and admit they will find it hard to get back up with many of their fans stating they are at the right level

[Lobby Dossar]

2 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Think they lease it from some community/council group

Yeah Lobby I agree with you about turkey voting for xmas but eventually it will change. its harming Scottish Football and are the blazers prepared to allow it to happen, They are at the moment but eventually there will be a shift change and it will happen.    Want to see everything under SP|FL 2 get their houses in order and organized>

lets put it this way, the teams that have went up in recent years, will they vote on the SPFL side or the lower league sides, Edinburgh City for example, which way would they vote. I could see them voting for promotion and relegation between Highland/Lowland league and SPFL and each year the promotion wize, I will expect the winners to be form the Highland and Lowland league and I'm sure the team moving up would vote for the lower levels having access.  Quite clearly if Brechin vote against it and they finish bottom, then they will play off against the winner of the Highland league or the Lowland league and id put my money on Brechin going down, Their if their elf centered chairman or Stenhousemuir self centered chairman has voted against lower level team coming up then their teams will find it years and years before they ever come back up, which personally I will love.

East Stirling and Berwick Rangers are in it and admit they will find it hard to get back up with many of their fans stating they are at the right level

The voting structure in the SPFL will take years to change with the way it was set up. 
When the SPFL was setup these teams could see the writing on the wall and the voting structure was setup accordingly.  11-1 for example

Also the playoffs within the SPFL leagues was setup in favour of the team in the higher league 

Think they call it self preservation 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

2 minutes ago, Lobby Dossar said:

The voting structure in the SPFL will take years to change with the way it was set up. 
When the SPFL was setup these teams could see the writing on the wall and the voting structure was setup accordingly.  11-1 for example

Also the playoffs within the SPFL leagues was setup in favour of the team in the higher league 

Think they call it self preservation 

Yeah thats no argument there as I state the same in my post, we all know its happening, but eventually I believe there will be change.
I'm not saying when but lets put it this way, most of the team going the now in the WOSFL, EOSFL, LL, HL intend to be operating for another hundred years so there will be change sometime.  Eventually someone will balls high up in the SFA will get the rule change.

Its a FACT, we all know, the rules voted in by the SPFL2 are harming Scottish football and I believe it will change and hopefully in my lifetime

[Andy groundhopper]

Looks similar to the EFL/National League down south - you need the spfl lge2 clubs to see that relegation doesn't mean years in the  wilderness v stronger clubs trying to take their place. That's where a solid pyramid holds up - may take a while for it to all fall into place. Guess if the majority of clubs eventually get licensed, it may speed things up ?

[Cyclizine]

Realistically, we need to see the lower league side regularly winning the playoff before there'll be any move to automatic relegation.  We need the League 2 clubs to realise that the benefits of a second bite at the cherry if you finish bottom might be outweighed by the disadvantage that it becomes significantly harder to get back up, once you're down. Until there's a few more ex-SPFL sides in Tier 5, this isn't going to happen. Frustrating, but that's life.

Similar to the bottleneck at the bottom of the Lowland League, with regard to licenced clubs in Tier 6. We're getting there in the East. Once the top West clubs are licenced, then there's no excuse for no expansion of the relegation slots.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

4 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

Realistically, we need to see the lower league side regularly winning the playoff before there'll be any move to automatic relegation.  We need the League 2 clubs to realise that the benefits of a second bite at the cherry if you finish bottom might be outweighed by the disadvantage that it becomes significantly harder to get back up, once you're down. Until there's a few more ex-SPFL sides in Tier 5, this isn't going to happen. Frustrating, but that's life.

Similar to the bottleneck at the bottom of the Lowland League, with regard to licenced clubs in Tier 6. We're getting there in the East. Once the top West clubs are licenced, then there's no excuse for no expansion of the relegation slots.

Yeah agree, 
If the standard continues to rise, in the West as in the East and hopefully the South then the Lowland will get their house in order but its nearly there to be honest, and I expect in a couple of years and the standard in each association will be class. I'm expecting most if not all the East, Lothian junior teams left will join the pyramid in 21/22 so hopefully within a couple fo years the introduction of the Aberdeen sides and Tayside sides to the pyramid and again, the standard will rise and as Cyclizine says, either the Lowland or the Highland winning the relegation play off constantly to take the final spot in the SPFL 2 then I'm sure it wont be long until SFA realize this is the way to go and have automatic relegation from the SPFL2

Edited January 1, 2021 by Bestsinceslicebread

[FairWeatherFan]

By the 2022 agms I imagine the Lowland will increase promotion & relegation. As by that point the West will be in a position to guarantee a licensed champion every year. 

This year is probably too soon to see that change. 

[LongTimeLurker]

18 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

....Similar to the bottleneck at the bottom of the Lowland League, with regard to licenced clubs in Tier 6. We're getting there in the East. Once the top West clubs are licenced, then there's no excuse for no expansion of the relegation slots.

Looks like Darvel and possibly Clydebank should be ready this year and Auchinleck Talbot almost certainly would have been, so the argument they were waiting for that doesn't necessarily stand up to close scrutiny.

It will probably take several more years of promotion by former junior superleague clubs to get to the point that clubs like Spartans become potential relegation candidates that could conceivably quickly bounce back for attitudes to shift. Clubs need to see a future advantage to themselves to vote for opening it up. 

Right now there's a mentality that this is our league that we founded, so why should we make way for all these Tenents Super swilling junior interlopers amongst lower half LL clubs that know full well that their future natural habitat after relegation from the LL will be tiers 7 & 8 in EoS terms.

[Arthurlie1981]

Looks like Darvel and possibly Clydebank should be ready this year and Auchinleck Talbot almost certainly would have been, so the argument they were waiting for that doesn't necessarily stand up to close scrutiny.
Right now there's a mentality that this is our league that we founded, so why should we make way for all these Tenents Super swilling junior interlopers amongst lower half LL clubs that know full well that their future natural habitat after relegation from the LL will be tiers 7 & 8 in EoS terms.

I agree with your point in that teams (be it in the SPFL or LL) will do what is right for their clubs and I don’t have a problem with that. It wasn’t that long ago when League 2 in England had only one relegation place (it changed in 2003) so it will take a while to change here and there may have to be financial inducements or structural changes to enable it to happen but it won’t happen overnight.

Personally I think we should be looking at the structure of Scottish Football post pandemic anyway but if last year taught us anything turkeys won’t vote for Christmas and the SPFL couldn’t organise a vote almost akin to how it was in the SJFA!!

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 02/01/2021 at 10:16, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

I agree with your point in that teams (be it in the SPFL or LL) will do what is right for their clubs and I don’t have a problem with that. It wasn’t that long ago when League 2 in England had only one relegation place (it changed in 2003) so it will take a while to change here and there may have to be financial inducements or structural changes to enable it to happen but it won’t happen overnight.

Personally I think we should be looking at the structure of Scottish Football post pandemic anyway but if last year taught us anything turkeys won’t vote for Christmas and the SPFL couldn’t organise a vote almost akin to how it was in the SJFA!!

 

Hopefully this is understood the way I want it conveyed, fekcing hard to read it back to myself a few times and change to make sure lol

These are just all insular groups who think that everything matters for their own personal satisfaction.

Do we all agree, any team from the highland League or the Lowland league who get promoted, wont be relegated from the SPFL, infact do we probably expect the promoted teams will be chasing for promotion the following year from the SPFL 2, which means the regulars SPFL prop up teams like Brechin City, Stenhouemuir, Cwdnbeath's, Albion Rovers teams will eventually be relegated one at a time and I wouldn't expect any of us t think they will bounce back the following year.  This is something that the SP||F|L 2 clubs cant avoid, one team relegated each year. Thus any team being promoted have any common sense will vote for two automatic promotions from the Lowland or Highland league, knowing there's  a great chance bouncing back if relegated from the SPFL 2 league the previous year.    if all this doe happen then yeah eventually in the future the chairmen of Stenny, Brechin etc.. will be fecked with their self preservation

Edited January 3, 2021 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Arthurlie1981]

Hopefully this is understood the way I want it conveyed, fekcing hard to read it back to myself a few times and change to make sure lol
These are just all insular groups who think that everything matters for their own personal satisfaction.

Do we all agree, any team from who get promoted from the highland League or the Lowland league wont be relegated from the SPFL, infact probably be chasing for promotion, which means the regulars SPFL prop up teams like Brechin City, Stenhouemuir, Cwdnbeath's, Albon Rovers teams will eventually be relegated one at a time and I wouldn't expect any of us t think they will bounce back the following year.  This is something that the SP||F|L 2 clubs cant avoid, one team relegated each year. Thus any team being promoted have any common sense will vote for two automatic promotions from the Lowland or Highland league, knowing there's  a great chance bouncing back if relegated from the SPFL 2 league the previous year.    if all this doe happen then yeah eventually in the future the chairmen of Stenny, Brechin etc.. will be fecked with their self preservation
 

I get what you mean but I think what they have seen with East Stirlingshire and Berwick not bouncing straight back will have the opposite effect and they will try and keep it at one meaning that the chances of them going down are slightly longer odds. That’s just my opinion maybe I am wrong on that but it makes no sense any other way. I agree with you that if they took the longer term view then it could be beneficial but since when has Scottish football at any level taken a long term view to anything. We still can’t get the youth set ups right never mind the top leagues!!

[Bestsinceslicebread]

20 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

I get what you mean but I think what they have seen with East Stirlingshire and Berwick not bouncing straight back will have the opposite effect and they will try and keep it at one meaning that the chances of them going down are slightly longer odds. That’s just my opinion maybe I am wrong on that but it makes no sense any other way. I agree with you that if they took the longer term view then it could be beneficial but since when has Scottish football at any level taken a long term view to anything. We still can’t get the youth set ups right never mind the top leagues!!

 

Yeah but thats what I mean, these teams Brechin, Stenny, Cowdenbeath, if they don't improve, then they are eventually fecked over time as every team coming up is way stronger, so those four and a few other WILL get relegated and all the ones moving up, you would expect to have the two relegated attitude.

Regarding the youth set up, you have two main ones, The pro youth set up and the development youth set up, ( not including the Highland league section as I don't know enough about it).
The development youth set up only has one problem which is Covid, if it wasn't for that then it would be flying.
The pro youth set up, your always gonna have teams like Celtic and Rangers, Aberdeen etc... who take about 40 boys and are only really interested in about 4 or 5 of them and the rest are treated as canon fodder, which I don't think will ever change

[Thistlewalk]

On 29/12/2020 at 19:04, Hillonearth said:

Like I say, it would be variable dependent on supplier and how many lights in the system being used, but it shouldn't be any more than £15 an hour tops to run. There are other overheads though - the bulbs don't come cheap!

Surely LED floodlights would be cheaper in the long run, yes slightly more expensive initial outlay, but take maintenance factor of 0.7 into account on metal halide or sodium lamps let's say your changing a "bulb" every 10,000hrs compared to LED lasting minimum 50,000hrs its a damn site cheaper overall 

[info]

I think 10' 000 Hrs from metal halide bulbs is wishful thinking in my experience. Maybe location has something to do with it. Can anybody put forward an explanation?

We were also cautioned against changing to LED . Engineers said their reliability had not been proven.Comments?

£15 per hr running cost is pretty much in line with our experience.

[Arthurlie1981]

Yeah but thats what I mean, these teams Brechin, Stenny, Cowdenbeath, if they don't improve, then they are eventually fecked over time as every team coming up is way stronger, so those four and a few other WILL get relegated and all the ones moving up, you would expect to have the two relegated attitude.

Regarding the youth set up, you have two main ones, The pro youth set up and the development youth set up, ( not including the Highland league section as I don't know enough about it).
The development youth set up only has one problem which is Covid, if it wasn't for that then it would be flying.
The pro youth set up, your always gonna have teams like Celtic and Rangers, Aberdeen etc... who take about 40 boys and are only really interested in about 4 or 5 of them and the rest are treated as canon fodder, which I don't think will ever change

I agree with you but the clubs are not looking at the long term picture. Brechin were more worried about what league they would get relegated into. The clubs are not thinking about getting relegated in the long term. They play in a league where almost 50% of the clubs can get promoted they are looking up not down. 100% they should be looking at the longer term but I bet most of the clubs go into the season looking at promotion playoffs at minimum and not relegation playoffs. They need to drastically rethink the leagues as 2 automatic places doesn’t make sense where you also have 4 potential promotion spots.

The ideal scenario is 3x14 divisions with 2 down in each and playoffs but again they had a chance to make these changes last year in a way to help not punish clubs like Thistle/Hearts/Falkirk for something that they had no control over and they decided self preservation which they always will unfortunately.

[rockson]

3 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Hopefully this is understood the way I want it conveyed, fekcing hard to read it back to myself a few times and change to make sure lol

These are just all insular groups who think that everything matters for their own personal satisfaction.

Do we all agree, any team from the highland League or the Lowland league who get promoted, wont be relegated from the SPFL, infact do we probably expect the promoted teams will be chasing for promotion the following year from the SPFL 2, which means the regulars SPFL prop up teams like Brechin City, Stenhouemuir, Cwdnbeath's, Albion Rovers teams will eventually be relegated one at a time and I wouldn't expect any of us t think they will bounce back the following year.  This is something that the SP||F|L 2 clubs cant avoid, one team relegated each year. Thus any team being promoted have any common sense will vote for two automatic promotions from the Lowland or Highland league, knowing there's  a great chance bouncing back if relegated from the SPFL 2 league the previous year.    if all this doe happen then yeah eventually in the future the chairmen of Stenny, Brechin etc.. will be fecked with their self preservation

Two automatic promotions means two automatic relegations. Is there any league anywhere in the world that relegates one-fifth (20%) of its members every year?

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, rockson said:

Is there any league anywhere in the world that relegates one-fifth (20%) of its members every year?

Several.

As an example take the lowest National League of France that relegates 4 from 18 (22.222%). That's so they can promote the 4 regional division champions each year.

[glensmad]

The old West Region Championship used to relegate 4 teams out of 14 every season - 28.6%.

Next season the WoSFL Premiership will relegate 7 teams out of 20 - 35%. But that's a one-off to sort the leagues into the tiers they were originally planned to be in next season.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

3 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

I agree with you but the clubs are not looking at the long term picture. Brechin were more worried about what league they would get relegated into. The clubs are not thinking about getting relegated in the long term. They play in a league where almost 50% of the clubs can get promoted they are looking up not down. 100% they should be looking at the longer term but I bet most of the clubs go into the season looking at promotion playoffs at minimum and not relegation playoffs. They need to drastically rethink the leagues as 2 automatic places doesn’t make sense where you also have 4 potential promotion spots.

The ideal scenario is 3x14 divisions with 2 down in each and playoffs but again they had a chance to make these changes last year in a way to help not punish clubs like Thistle/Hearts/Falkirk for something that they had no control over and they decided self preservation which they always will unfortunately.

 

Yeah agree but you keep on about what these self preservation teams did, yeah we all know those teams fecked everyone over and will continue to do so as they have hown their true colours.  Who gives a fck what Brechin's and Stenny teams think, their chairman is only interested in their club and attitude of feck football in Scotland long team but guess what, his team are one of the teams who I expect to be relegated soon so he wont have a say and |Brechin, I get the feeling when, not if, relegated that they will be going to the Highland league after the shit he pulled. The teams who are promoted from the highland league/Lowland league playoff will I expect vote for 2  relegation is best.  The SFA Blazers are not blind to it, they are going with the old fashioned SPFL 2 teams but if everything is sorted lower down and proving stronger teams then eventually they will give in

 

and yes 10 team league is no use as a 14 or 16  SPFL2 would be better.

 

These are the things that need to get sorted or tweaked and as I aid before, which most of us know, get our houses in order, highland league with the Aberdeen section, the Lowland league with new additions, Lothian and East junior team joining and the last to sort out is the Tayside then there is no looking back