Stego Mac Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 From a neutral point of view, it is always going to be interesting to see how the Conferences are made up, and I have no idea how the discussions have been on these. So for a bit of fun, I decided to come up with my own version. I split each of the teams into a pool of 4 based on league positions last year with the exception of Johnstone Burgh and Newmains who moved up a pot based on their points per games. The 4 new clubs were also put in the same pot. Each of the pots would then in turn be drawn into each of the conferences in turn. Below I have listed ‘my’ pots followed by the initial draw I made for a bit of fun. I don’t think I could have hand picked some of the derbies better myself without the random generator though. WOS League ‘pots’ Pot 1Kilwinning RangersPollokAuchinleck TalbotIrvine Meadow Pot 2ClydebankGlenafton AthleticBeith Kilbirnie Pot 3CumnockRossvaleLargs ThistleHurlford Pot 4TroonBenburbRutherglen GlencairnKirkintilloch Rob Roy Pot 5DarvelCumbernauldBlantyreRenfrew Pot 6ShottsArthurlieNeilstonWhitletts Pot 7Kilsyth RangersDalry ThistleGartcairnPetershill Pot 8St RochsCambuslangCraigmarkIrvine Victoria Pot 9ArdrossanLanarkShettlestonPort Glasgow Pot 10LesmahagowGreenockCarlukeGlasgow Perthshire Pot 11Larkhall Thistle Bellshill AthleticGirvanMaryhill Pot 12Kello RoversWishawEast Kilbride ThistleRoyal Albert Pot 13Vale of LevenYoker AthleticMuirkirkJohnstone Burgh Pot 14MayboleAshfieldThorniewood UnitedForth Wanderers Pot 15AnnbankVale of ClydeSt Anthony’sNewmains United Pot 16Saltcoats VictoriaLugar Boswell ThistleArdeer Thistle Pot 17Bonnyton ThistleDrumchapel UnitedGlasgow UniversitySt Cadocs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Mac Posted April 26, 2020 Author Share Posted April 26, 2020 My own draw for fun:WOS Leagues 2020/21Conference ABenburbBonnyton ThistleCambuslang RangersDarvelGirvanGreenockKello RoversKilbirnieKilsythHurlfordMuirkirkPollokPort GlasgowThorniewoodVale of ClydeWhitlettsConference BArdeer ThistleAshfieldBeithCumbernauldDalry ThistleEast Kilbride ThistleGlasgow PerthshireGlasgow UniversityIrvine MeadowIrvine VictoriaLargs ThistleLarkhall ThistleRutherglen GlencairnShettlestonShottsSt Anthony’sVale of LevenConference CArthurlieAuchinleck TalbotBellshillBlantyre VictoriaCarlukeCraigmark CumnockForth WanderersGartcairnGlenaftonJohnston BurghKirkintilloch Rob RoyLanarkNewmainsSaltcoatsSt CadocsWishawConference DAnnbankArdrossanClydebankDrumchapel UnitedKilwinning RangersLesmahagowLugar BoswellMaryhillMayboleNeilstonPetershillRenfrewRossvaleRoyal AlbertSt RochsTroonYoker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 I’ve thought about something similar but instead of splitting teams from the same area up, loosely keeping teams from the same area playing each other in the first season of conferences... So you would have teams seeded based on current standings in the WJ league, with the new teams added on, and try to keep the conference’s as close as possible geographically at first 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Bonnyton would be in a higher pot on account of already being a tier 6 club 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud4 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Would this years junior standings be relevant when taking into account the conferences for the WOS? With the organisations being two separate entities and the addition of the 4 new teams, again coming from separate organisations, would it not be prevalent to have all teams on a level playing field and basically draw the conferences out of hat so to speak? Would this not make it fair and would not differentiate the likes of Auchinleck and Kilwinning to Saltcoats and Drumpchapel for instance who really all should be on a level playing field. Well at least at the beginning and formation of the league you would think! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 The clubs will all get the opportunity to give their opinions this week on how the conferences should be worked out via video calls on Tuesday and Wednesday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, spud4 said: Would this years junior standings be relevant when taking into account the conferences for the WOS? With the organisations being two separate entities and the addition of the 4 new teams, again coming from separate organisations, would it not be prevalent to have all teams on a level playing field and basically draw the conferences out of hat so to speak? Would this not make it fair and would not differentiate the likes of Auchinleck and Kilwinning to Saltcoats and Drumpchapel for instance who really all should be on a level playing field. Well at least at the beginning and formation of the league you would think! Possibly not, I’m just going on how it was done in the east, although they didn’t regionalise the conferences. The situation this season is completely different so I can see why it may not be the best way, but also a random draw could end up with ALL the best teams in one conference. Therefore putting better teams a division or 2 lower than not so good teams for season 2. The only other way is to split the season in 2 to allow teams who got an unfairly difficult conference in the first place, to find their true level for the first full season of divisions... It will be an interesting discussion but with the LL’s track record of allowing teams to have their say, I’m sure they will come to an agreement that (almost) everyone is happy about Edited April 26, 2020 by Spyro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud4 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Possibly not, I’m just going on how it was done in the east, although they didn’t regionalise the conferences. The situation this season is completely different so I can see why it may not be the best way, but also a random draw could end up with ALL the best teams in one conference. Therefore putting better teams a division or 2 lower than not so good teams for season 2. The only other way is to split the season in 2 to allow teams who got an unfairly difficult conference in the first place, to find their true level for the first full season of divisions... It will be an interesting discussion but with the LL’s track record of allowing teams to have their say, I’m sure they will come to an agreement that (almost) everyone is happy aboutMy next question was going to ask how they did it in the east? I’m not even sure it’s really the same scenario as the easy though as everyone has moved across here. Again I don’t know, personally if regionalising it would ultimately be a fair way either. Think the idea of sort of “free for all” draw makes it more appealing to everyone and not just the elite teams. If you have a hard conference then ultimately that could provide the best football next year and the most entertaining conference. It will give everyone a fair chance of qualifying for the WOS league. Think over the next season or 2 most teams will find their level but this way allows, so called smaller teams a one year free hit next season and a big chance to jump a few leagues in one season, especially if they are in a so called easier conference. Will be interesting to see where it goes for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, spud4 said: My next question was going to ask how they did it in the east? I’m not even sure it’s really the same scenario as the easy though as everyone has moved across here. Again I don’t know, personally if regionalising it would ultimately be a fair way either. Think the idea of sort of “free for all” draw makes it more appealing to everyone and not just the elite teams. If you have a hard conference then ultimately that could provide the best football next year and the most entertaining conference. It will give everyone a fair chance of qualifying for the WOS league. Think over the next season or 2 most teams will find their level but this way allows, so called smaller teams a one year free hit next season and a big chance to jump a few leagues in one season, especially if they are in a so called easier conference. Will be interesting to see where it goes for sure. They seeding things based on the previous season's ranking. League order was LL-EoS-Super-Premier-South-Central 2nd-Am/Youth. Luckily there was only one amateur/youth club in Inverkeithing. They could end up doing something similar in the WoSFL. That's probably the idea they're working to right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Zero chance of it being a completely random draw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) You need to work backwards from the end goal. Which presumably is a 16-team Premiership etc. So you need to find the 16 best clubs in the WOSFL*, but you can't just take the old Premiership as it's a fresh start with new teams, and those in the Championship didn't get their promotion. To do that, you need a number of conferences each of which are roughly equal strength. That way everyone has roughly the same chance of trying to get towards the top. At the end of the season the top teams get assigned to the WOS Premiership. Drawing teams out of a hat or doing it by regions will not achieve equal conferences. IMO the only real choices the clubs have are: number of games to be played in the season (which might influence the number of conferences), whether to use PPG, whether to use sequential or snake splitting, and where to put Bonnyton (top or bottom) in the list. * actually might only be 15, depends on whether Dalbeattie or Gretna want to go into the SOS or WOS. Edited April 26, 2020 by Ginaro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, spud4 said: My next question was going to ask how they did it in the east? I’m not even sure it’s really the same scenario as the easy though as everyone has moved across here. Again I don’t know, personally if regionalising it would ultimately be a fair way either. Think the idea of sort of “free for all” draw makes it more appealing to everyone and not just the elite teams. If you have a hard conference then ultimately that could provide the best football next year and the most entertaining conference. It will give everyone a fair chance of qualifying for the WOS league. Think over the next season or 2 most teams will find their level but this way allows, so called smaller teams a one year free hit next season and a big chance to jump a few leagues in one season, especially if they are in a so called easier conference. Will be interesting to see where it goes for sure. The other difference in the east is that they only had to sort out 39 clubs, not 67. I personally am not a fan of regionalising the conferences but I figured that considering the circumstances of clubs not playing for so long and the amount of teams, it might be more appetising for the first (or even the first HALF) of the season to allow clubs to catch up with finances and old friends again. My other concern is 67 is a horrible number to try and split fairly, even with a higher in maths! Although sadly, the chances of ALL 67 making it to whenever the season starts again could be quite slim. I’m not banking on even seeing a 2020-21 season tbh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud4 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 The other difference in the east is that they only had to sort out 39 clubs, not 67. I personally am not a fan of regionalising the conferences but I figured that considering the circumstances of clubs not playing for so long and the amount of teams, it might be more appetising for the first (or even the first HALF) of the season to allow clubs to catch up with finances and old friends again. My other concern is 67 is a horrible number to try and split fairly, even with a higher in maths! Although sadly, the chances of ALL 67 making it to whenever the season starts again could be quite slim. I’m not banking on even seeing a 2020-21 season tbh [emoji25]I think the last sentence is the one we should be worrying about more than the conferences itself sadly. It could very well be the case. The regionalising scenario for financial reasons is a very good point and understandable but the argument could be a Lanarkshire club could be better off financially with a visit from Auchinleck than it would from Rutherglen for example. All hypothetical I know and there probably isn’t a correct answer. I’m sure clubs will be heard and their opinions considered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) This is how it was split in the east.... And this is how the conferences looked. Thanks again to FWF for breaking it down so neatly Edited April 26, 2020 by Spyro 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, spud4 said: I think the last sentence is the one we should be worrying about more than the conferences itself sadly. It could very well be the case. The regionalising scenario for financial reasons is a very good point and understandable but the argument could be a Lanarkshire club could be better off financially with a visit from Auchinleck than it would from Rutherglen for example. All hypothetical I know and there probably isn’t a correct answer. I’m sure clubs will be heard and their opinions considered. Yeah sorry to bring the mood down but we can bang our heads working out every different possibility under the sun. But until we know when football will start again and how many teams we will actually have, it’s all a waste of time trying to dream up who will be playing who Edited April 26, 2020 by Spyro 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Bonnyton would be in a higher pot on account of already being a tier 6 clubThe numbers of the pots aren't really relevant - there's a series of (ordered) Junior pots and then another non-Junior pot. That's exactly how the EoS did it too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramidic Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Interesting thread. I would prefer to see a list 1 to 67 that provides our seeding numbers. Should the Championship winners be seeded above those teams that finished in the Premiership relegation positions? Etc. The seeding list is the starting point and then we can debate from there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourofthegrass Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 How about something that gives balanced conferences, but also tends to give more local fixtures. Important when teams are hard up after the enforced break. Divide into groups of 4, same idea as the EoS did with groups of 3. The EoS put the 1sts in group together, then the 2nds etc,. Instead take the most northerly out of each group of 4. And call that Conference N. Then the most southerly, Conference S. Most easterly becomes Conference E and the remainder Conference W. It won't be perfect geographically, but could give the best of both worlds? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 1 hour ago, colourofthegrass said: How about something that gives balanced conferences, but also tends to give more local fixtures. Important when teams are hard up after the enforced break. Divide into groups of 4, same idea as the EoS did with groups of 3. The EoS put the 1sts in group together, then the 2nds etc,. Instead take the most northerly out of each group of 4. And call that Conference N. Then the most southerly, Conference S. Most easterly becomes Conference E and the remainder Conference W. It won't be perfect geographically, but could give the best of both worlds? Tbf all of those clubs were playing in a West-wide league with the exception of Glasgow Uni and St Cadocs - and they knew what they're signing up to. There's no need to sub-regionalise, especially since the largest travelling distance is going to be about 1hr 25m (Kilsyth to Girvan). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornishman Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 I think that when Conferences are drawn, there should aforethought perhaps be three/four different ones made! A 4-way split, a 5-way split, a 6-way split and even an 8-way split ~ and chosen accordingly for the available length of season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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