Conference Call

[Stockholmbud]

Auchinleck Irvine meadow Clydebank Benburb Blantyre Renfrew Arthurlie Petershill Shettleston Lesmahagow Larkhall Kello Johnstone Burgh Yoker Annbank Saltcoats 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

A serpentine ranking system seems the obvious thing unless I'm missing something. (Apologies for not knowing what the final positions after PPG were in the West Region)

Bonnyton A
Talbot B
Kilwinning (?) C
Third in West Premier D
Fourth place D
Fifth place C
Sixth B
Seventh A
Eight A

and so on...

Then the new lot from Newton Mearns in the bottom spot.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

A serpentine ranking system seems the obvious thing unless I'm missing something. (Apologies for not knowing what the final positions after PPG were in the West Region)

Bonnyton A
Talbot B
Kilwinning (?) C
Third in West Premier D
Fourth place D
Fifth place C
Sixth B
Seventh A
Eight A

and so on...

Then the new lot from Newton Mearns in the bottom spot.

 

Depends on your point of view. The Likes of Talbot would then be in a league with 1st, 8th, 9th and 16th in this year's West Premiership giving them the easiest route to the Conference championship under serpentine.

Edited April 27, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[AsimButtHitsASix]

21 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Depends on your point of view. The Likes of Talbot would then be in a league with 1st, 8th, 9th and 16th in this year's West Premiership giving them the easiest route to the Conference championship under serpentine.

True but a stepped seeding arrangement

Bonnyton A
Talbot B
Kilwinning (?) C
Third in West Premier D
Fourth place A
Fifth place B
Sixth C
Seventh D
Eight A

Makes Conference A much stronger than B which, in turn, is stronger than C and then D.

A random draw with the top four seeded, next four seeded, etc. also has the potential to throw up wildly different conferences in terms of quality. Whereas a serpentine draw has obvious benefits to Talbot (and Bonnyton) the overall strength of the league will be more egalitarian. Also consider it a bonus to Talbot for fixing winning the league

[Ginaro]

I worked it out and posted in the Juniors thread - using snake split means the average finishing position from this season in each conference is the same (8.5), while sequential means A>B>C>D (7,8,9,10).

Here is the four conference setup, based on PPG, Bonnyton ranked #1, using snake split:

A	B	C	D
Bonnyton Thistle	Auchinleck Talbot	Kilwinning Rangers	Pollok
Hurlford United	Beith Juniors	Irvine Meadow XI	Glenafton Athletic
Kilbirnie Ladeside	Clydebank	Cumnock Juniors	Rossvale
Rutherglen Glencairn	Troon	Benburb	Largs Thistle
Kirkintilloch Rob Roy	Blantyre Victoria	Darvel	Cumbernauld Utd
Kilsyth Rangers	Neilston Juniors	Renfrew	Shotts Bon Accord
Dalry Thistle	Arthurlie	Whitletts Victoria	Gartcairn Juniors
Craigmark Burntonians	Cambuslang Rangers	Petershill	St Roch's
Irvine Victoria	Shettleston	Ardrossan Winton R.	Lanark United
Greenock Juniors	Bellshill Athletic	Lesmahagow Juniors	Port Glasgow
Glasgow Perthshire	Larkhall Thistle	Carluke Rovers	Girvan
East Kilbride Thistle	Wishaw Juniors	Kello Rovers	Maryhill
Royal Albert	Johnstone Burgh	Muirkirk Juniors	Ashfield
Forth Wanderers	Thorniewood United	Yoker Athletic	Vale of Leven
Maybole Juniors	Annbank United	Vale of Clyde	St Anthony's
Ardeer Thistle	Lugar Boswell Thistle	Saltcoats Victoria	Newmains United
Glasgow University	Drumchapel United	St Cadoc's

 

[Andy groundhopper]

Guess whatever system is used to set up the WOS, won't we eventually end up with a Premier type division in the future, with the 16  strongest current juniors in the one division ? Or are there some wildcard clubs who may surprise everyone ?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

9 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Guess whatever system is used to set up the WOS, won't we eventually end up with a Premier type division in the future, with the 16  strongest current juniors in the one division ? Or are there some wildcard clubs who may surprise everyone ?

A lot of people under estimate the quality of the SoS league and Bonnyton might be able to attract better quality players. With a kind seeding and a lot of luck it might not be beyond them but I see that as unlikely. A few folk are saying St Cadoc's have some money behind them and seem to mean business so could be a surprise. Someone on the Morton board said Drumchapel have signed Willie Dyer and if that's true and they're attracting players with 300+ SPFL games under their belt then ye wouldn't want to write them off either.

And now that I've done all I can to make the league more exciting I'm gonna say I don't think any of that will make a difference and the first WoSFL Premier League will be very similar to this season's West Region Premier.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

A lot of people under estimate the quality of the SoS league and Bonnyton might be able to attract better quality players. With a kind seeding and a lot of luck it might not be beyond them but I see that as unlikely. A few folk are saying St Cadoc's have some money behind them and seem to mean business so could be a surprise. Someone on the Morton board said Drumchapel have signed Willie Dyer and if that's true and they're attracting players with 300+ SPFL games under their belt then ye wouldn't want to write them off either.

And now that I've done all I can to make the league more exciting I'm gonna say I don't think any of that will make a difference and the first WoSFL Premier League will be very similar to this season's West Region Premier.

An uncertain X factor in all this will be Drumpchapel United and St Cadocs. They're essentially starting from scratch. Have the resources already to run teams at various youth levels, even Drumchapel talked about keeping the amateur side going in arguably the strongest amateur league.

They're basically starting with clean slates when it comes to their first teams and go throw out large chunks of their budget on a handful of players right now. By the time it gets to filling out their bench that budget might be largely used up or they just plan on using their youth teams to pad things out.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

38 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Guess whatever system is used to set up the WOS, won't we eventually end up with a Premier type division in the future, with the 16  strongest current juniors in the one division ? Or are there some wildcard clubs who may surprise everyone ?

Yeah agree, there maybe a few wildcards this coming season but id say the leagues will sort themselves out on the third year. Any big team who has a bad season for 20/21 will be able to rectify it the following seasons, so if they ended up in 3rd division then they should be able to take stock, sort themselves out and get the next two years rising.

Whatever league the teams are drawn in, I'm thinking there will constantly be a few interesting games every weekend so genuinely looking forward to this coming season to see how it all unfolds.  I intend to get to quite a few matches this season

Edited April 27, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Bestsinceslicebread]

5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

An uncertain X factor in all this will be Drumpchapel United and St Cadocs. They're essentially starting from scratch. Have the resources already to run teams at various youth levels, even Drumchapel talked about keeping the amateur side going in arguably the strongest amateur league.

They're basically starting with clean slates when it comes to their first teams and go throw out large chunks of their budget on a handful of players right now. By the time it gets to filling out their bench that budget might be largely used up or they just plan on using their youth teams to pad things out.

Yeah, some teams will use youth to pad things out but other teams are serious on youth development and bring the right mix in to make sure the youths wont be going to the first team to fill a void but challenge for places

[AsimButtHitsASix]

To what extent have other ex-youth teams in the pyramid used their own youth systems to make up the first XI? Rossvale, Bonnyton, Inverkeithing, Cumbernauld Colts, Gartcairn and BSC? Are they, in general, any "better" at bringing their own players through than other clubs in their leagues?

[Tutankhamen]

5 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

To what extent have other ex-youth teams in the pyramid used their own youth systems to make up the first XI? Rossvale, Bonnyton, Inverkeithing, Cumbernauld Colts, Gartcairn and BSC? Are they, in general, any "better" at bringing their own players through than other clubs in their leagues?

Didn't Rossvale have ex Celtic and Aberdeen seniors playing for them at one point recently.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Most likely. I don't think anyone thinks it's possible to have an entire team full of players brought through their own youth system. Also if clubs are focusing on bringing through players it makes a lot of sense to have a few experienced professionals there to guide them

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Tutankhamen said:

Didn't Rossvale have ex Celtic and Aberdeen seniors playing for them at one point recently.

Wasn't it also one of the last stops of Robbie Winters?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Wasn't it also one of the last stops of Robbie Winters?

And Bobby Petta?

[Andy groundhopper]

Be good to see a good number of youth players come through the system, I've seen it down in England over the years but are we going to see clubs burn out by overspending and chasing some sort of golden goose ? Unless a rich sponsor opens his wallet, I hope this doesn't enter the Scottish game - at an important time for the clubs.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Most likely. I don't think anyone thinks it's possible to have an entire team full of players brought through their own youth system. Also if clubs are focusing on bringing through players it makes a lot of sense to have a few experienced professionals there to guide them

I think if any teams manages to get 2 youth players a year for they first team, then they are doing well
Last year at my previous club, our youth management team got 4 boys signed on duel contracts with the first team and another was supposed to go on trial at a championship team and another signed for a spfl 2 team.   Will they do well or fall flat on their face, they have the talent to do so, its really up to them

[Village elder]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Wasn't it also one of the last stops of Robbie Winters?

third last , last one Cumbernauld United..I'm sure

 

[Jerry Macguire]

6 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

To what extent have other ex-youth teams in the pyramid used their own youth systems to make up the first XI? Rossvale, Bonnyton, Inverkeithing, Cumbernauld Colts, Gartcairn and BSC? Are they, in general, any "better" at bringing their own players through than other clubs in their leagues?

Lots of clubs across the leagues with no youth set up whatsoever. Speaking for my own club I would estimate  8 to 10 players have come through our youth set up to establish themselves as first team players over the 5 full seasons we’ve existed. You can judge for yourself if that’s good or bad. 

[geo87]

I think if you have 1-2 boys a year establishing themselves as regulars then that is an excellent return, especially when you have had the relative success of BSC over the last few seasons.

Are all 8-10 still at the club or have any moved on?