CALDERON Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 The Championship had a player called up to the Scotland National Team, who went on to play (and score) People can overstate how good the past was, League 1 is certainly better than it was the last time we won this league in 2009. Falkirk blew this season because they weren't managed properly at any stage, and lost too many points to teams with a fraction of their support and budget. I dare say that is why some of their fans are depressed, rather than Scottish football going on a downward trajectory in standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: I watch the old vids and they are. Christ some of the stuff in league one this season has been murder to watch. Ball bouncing off folk and spending more time out the park. We're not great at all but have still managed to trounce a few teams 6,5,4 zero at times. A lot of young robots in the game these days. Little skill all about pace and stamina. Championship used to have a lot of very good players. Coyles, mccallisters, crawfords, Cameron's etc. Very few these days. For every example you give of great players back in the day I could give you the opposite. Paddy Flannery was the best striker I got to watch at Dumbarton as a kid, and as much as I loved him, he wasn't a great footballer and most of his goals were tap ins. Last season I watched Dom Thomas rip teams apart on his own and he regularly smacked in goals from 20+ yards. What I will say is that the lower leagues are now more reliant on bigger clubs for their "skillful players" due to the monopoly the bigger clubs have on picking up youths. Coyle came through at Renfrew before joining Dumbarton, McAllister at Camelon, Cameron came through at Raith - I think in this day and age pretty much all senior players come through pro-youth, you won't see a Coyle being unearthed at Dumbarton or a McAllister at Falkirk because the "elite" clubs in the country are hoovering up talent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, The Moonster said: For every example you give of great players back in the day I could give you the opposite. Paddy Flannery was the best striker I got to watch at Dumbarton as a kid, and as much as I loved him, he wasn't a great footballer and most of his goals were tap ins. Last season I watched Dom Thomas rip teams apart on his own and he regularly smacked in goals from 20+ yards. What I will say is that the lower leagues are now more reliant on bigger clubs for their "skillful players" due to the monopoly the bigger clubs have on picking up youths. Coyle came through at Renfrew before joining Dumbarton, McAllister at Camelon, Cameron came through at Raith - I think in this day and age pretty much all senior players come through pro-youth, you won't see a Coyle being unearthed at Dumbarton or a McAllister at Falkirk because the "elite" clubs in the country are hoovering up talent. I remember some great dumbarton sides we played in the 70s and 80s. Likes of Gerry McCoy, Ray Blair, Murdo MacLeod, john bourke. Had some cracking players back then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydog Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Moonster said: For every example you give of great players back in the day I could give you the opposite. Paddy Flannery was the best striker I got to watch at Dumbarton as a kid, and as much as I loved him, he wasn't a great footballer and most of his goals were tap ins. Last season I watched Dom Thomas rip teams apart on his own and he regularly smacked in goals from 20+ yards. What I will say is that the lower leagues are now more reliant on bigger clubs for their "skillful players" due to the monopoly the bigger clubs have on picking up youths. Coyle came through at Renfrew before joining Dumbarton, McAllister at Camelon, Cameron came through at Raith - I think in this day and age pretty much all senior players come through pro-youth, you won't see a Coyle being unearthed at Dumbarton or a McAllister at Falkirk because the "elite" clubs in the country are hoovering up talent. I'd mostly agree as the Pro-youth does hoover up kids......and spits them out too! Celtic gave up on a 16 yr old Andrew Robertson and he ended up at Queens Park, Shankland failed to make the grade at Aberdeen but blossomed at Ayr. In the lower echelons Rovers have produced Lewis Vaughan (not a world star but would have been at a far better club than us but for injuries), David Bates and more recently Kieran Bowie. Partick released to us both Kevin Nisbet and more recently Dylan Tait and I believe Tait will be our next star. My point is theses players are out there and still coming through at smaller clubs but without a decent platform to play from they are as good as sunk, far too many fall out of love and leave the game too early because some coach at Murray Park or Lennoxtown said they aren't good enough, thank f*** Andy Robertson wasn't like that. As for the football being better in the past argument, things always look better as you look back in time but I know that many former players have said that they hate hearing a player being complimented on having a good first touch, surely that is a prerequisite. I'd agree with that too, almost every player even at amateur level had a good 1st touch when I was younger, you didn't get a game if you hadn't one. Outwith the ugly sisters plenty of good kids have come through the lesser lights academies (McCarthy, McArthur, Fergusson, Snodgrass, Bain, McFadden, Turnbull, Fulton, Arfield, Blair, McGrandles) and some have made it big but I'll bet there are plenty more who mostly aren't getting a proper chance. Might not be popular to suggest this but I'd get the SFA to modify the rules to enforce giving U20's some game time in the first team. Of course this was supposed to be the idea behind increasing the number of substitutes but that was a failure imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said: I watch the old vids and they are. Christ some of the stuff in league one this season has been murder to watch. Ball bouncing off folk and spending more time out the park. We're not great at all but have still managed to trounce a few teams 6,5,4 zero at times. A lot of young robots in the game these days. Little skill all about pace and stamina. Championship used to have a lot of very good players. Coyles, mccallisters, crawfords, Cameron's etc. Very few these days. Did they though? If you go back through the past decade at championship level you'd have some very decent players. Your Dobbie's, Cummings, Shanklands, Morgans, McGinns, Waghorns, Travernier, Stevie May.. Dare I say it Kevin Nisbet... Their will be more but Dunfermline spent a large portion of the last decade being absolutely fucking gubbins so I missed a good amount of the championship. I'd say the championship was substantially weaker in the 2000s and even then it had some cracking players in Mccarthy, McCarthur, Mcdonald, Rooney, Hayes, Griffiths etc etc. Tl;Dr, you're havering absolutely pish, stop taking the stance that because Falkirk are absolutely shite at the moment that the rest of Scottish football must be struggling. It's not true, Falkirk are just pish, however other sides are good. In the future Falkirk will be good, other sides will be pish. That doesn't mean Scottish football is great just because Falkirk are better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Grant228 said: Did they though? If you go back through the past decade at championship level you'd have some very decent players. Your Dobbie's, Cummings, Shanklands, Morgans, McGinns, Waghorns, Travernier, Stevie May.. Dare I say it Kevin Nisbet... Their will be more but Dunfermline spent a large portion of the last decade being absolutely fucking gubbins so I missed a good amount of the championship. I'd say the championship was substantially weaker in the 2000s and even then it had some cracking players in Mccarthy, McCarthur, Mcdonald, Rooney, Hayes, Griffiths etc etc. Tl;Dr, you're havering absolutely pish, stop taking the stance that because Falkirk are absolutely shite at the moment that the rest of Scottish football must be struggling. It's not true, Falkirk are just pish, however other sides are good. In the future Falkirk will be good, other sides will be pish. That doesn't mean Scottish football is great just because Falkirk are better. I'm basing my opinion on the standard of teams we play and not simply whether falkirk are a decent side or not though. The 00's was when the standard of the championship began to decline. Our side that won it under hughes wasn't a patch on the sides that won it previously and yet won by double figure points even after losing the last 3 matches. When we came back down after 5 years in the top flight the lowering of standards was pretty noticeable until the introduction of hearts, hibs and rangers and their premier league level budgets. Cant say there were any sides we played between coming down and then that I felt were outstanding and that would be the pars, dundee, ross county and partick. In fact under holt we were extremely average but still pushed dundee all the way in what was a pretty forgettable season altogether. The advent of premiership.budgets brought a better standard of course although to me none of the hearts, rangers, hibs sides were a patch on the hibs team of the 90s which had latapy, sauzee etc. Teams back then though still competed again them we for instance drew once and were beaten by the odd goal in the other 3 and yet that was a top top hibs team. Cant say I was over impressed by the st mirren or ross county sides that won the championship recently. Workman like but nothing special in my opinion. I've only seen this years united side on tv and yet again they have huffed and puffed. Noone has been good enough to give then a real run for the title though. I'll always stand by my opinion that the championship was a far better league in the 80s and 90s but that's just my opinion as I've said. Edited April 28, 2020 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnotgarybollan Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 I am also giving serious thought to calling it a dayNothing to do with my team being shite it’s everyone else’s faultIt’s absolutely not because my team are shite thoughBring back the days of top goal scorers like Bryan Duell and Paul Ronald in the leagueMy team being pish has zero influence on thisPlease believe mePlease 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Perrin Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I am also giving serious thought to calling it a dayNothing to do with my team being shite it’s everyone else’s faultIt’s absolutely not because my team are shite thoughBring back the days of top goal scorers like Bryan Duell and Paul Ronald in the leagueMy team being pish has zero influence on thisPlease believe mePleaseCheerio then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveheartGordon Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 On 27/04/2020 at 12:33, Shadwell Dog said: Look at the sides man u and arsenal have been putting out. Youngsters and reserves players and a couple of first teamers. Lot of english sides would give it a miss if possible. The really big sides in it dont give a feck. Likes of braga and feyenoord might but their hardly major forces in european football these days.The fact that Kluj put our champs out the champ league qualifiers says it all about where we are. Until we're getting sides into the champ league consistently again we've got nowt to crow about on a european level. Porto played in the quarter finals of the champions league last season and Lazio are chasing the title in Serie A and they never won a game against our sides in 4 attempts. its English clubs loss if they don’t care about a prestigious European competition but the Spanish, Italian and German clubs definitely do. Well funnily enough our European participation has led to a second champions league spot and potentially an easier qualifying route so I’m sure you’ll enjoy seeing our champions league participation which doesn’t fit your negative view of our game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Theres an awful lot of crowing about something that is for all intents and purposes, exclusively for and about Rangers and Celtic, since it fits the current agenda, which is odd considering the large amount of folk on here who would argue that European success for those two is to the detriment of the Scottish game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Bairnardo said: Theres an awful lot of crowing about something that is for all intents and purposes, exclusively for and about Rangers and Celtic, since it fits the current agenda, which is odd considering the large amount of folk on here who would argue that European success for those two is to the detriment of the Scottish game. It's not about that. It started with a long and winding tear stained rant about how shite Scottish football is which included a specific claim about the old firm being "humiliated" every time the faced decent opposition. That is blatantly a load of pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 The second tier of Scottish football has undoubtedly declined - significantly - over the past fifteen years (and even more from the mid 90s) though the earlier judgment that the lower tiers have improved in terms of overall standard and above all fitness is probably correct as well. So there has been a distinct levelling of the field between clubs outside of the top flight, with most full-time and part-time teams grouping much closer to reliable mediocrity than before. That's understandably seen as a good thing for fans of clubs like Alloa, Arbroath, East Fife etc. but the piss-poor quality of the football is troubling to those used to higher standards. And even more so to the torn-faced losers of Grangemouth who got relegated and then bottled the league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, virginton said: The second tier of Scottish football has undoubtedly declined - significantly - over the past fifteen years (and even more from the mid 90s) though the earlier judgment that the lower tiers have improved in terms of overall standard and above all fitness is probably correct as well. So there has been a distinct levelling of the field between clubs outside of the top flight, with most full-time and part-time teams grouping much closer to reliable mediocrity than before. That's understandably seen as a good thing for fans of clubs like Alloa, Arbroath, East Fife etc. but the piss-poor quality of the football is troubling to those used to higher standards. And even more so to the torn-faced losers of Grangemouth who got relegated and then bottled the league. Higher standards you support Morten ffs..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly, Mr Shankly Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 You still giving it serious thought? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 You still giving it serious thought? He hasn’t posted here since he quit on 21st April....so I’d say the answer is yes..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyBlueArmy1876 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 To sum up our last 10 years: 2010 - Relegated from the SPL following a drab 0-0 draw (our 7th of that season) 2012 - Contrive to finish 3rd behind Dundee - meaning we just miss out on promotion after Rangers go bust 2014 - Finish 3rd despite being top of the league at the end of January 2015 - Lose the Scottish Cup Final when playing against 10 men 2016 - Skelped 4-1 off Kilmarnock in the Play-off Final 2017- Shut the academy 2018- Sack manager. Finish 8th in the league, (2002 aside) our lowest league finish in decades 2019 - Sack manager. SFA fine. Dennon Lewis incident. Finish 10th, relegated again to League 1 2020 - Sack manager. Miss out on chance of promotion due to Covid19 outbreak Yet I still can't wait for the football to be back... What is wrong with me? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumswall Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 To sum up our last 10 years: 2010 - Relegated from the SPL following a drab 0-0 draw (our 7th of that season) 2012 - Contrive to finish 3rd behind Dundee - meaning we just miss out on promotion after Rangers go bust 2014 - Finish 3rd despite being top of the league at the end of January 2015 - Lose the Scottish Cup Final when playing against 10 men 2016 - Skelped 4-1 off Kilmarnock in the Play-off Final 2017- Shut the academy 2018- Sack manager. Finish 8th in the league, (2002 aside) our lowest league finish in decades 2019 - Sack manager. SFA fine. Dennon Lewis incident. Finish 10th, relegated again to League 1 2020 - Sack manager. Miss out on chance of promotion due to Covid19 outbreak Yet I still can't wait for the football to be back... What is wrong with me? Your a falkirk fan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Perrin Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 To sum up our last 10 years: 2010 - Relegated from the SPL following a drab 0-0 draw (our 7th of that season) 2012 - Contrive to finish 3rd behind Dundee - meaning we just miss out on promotion after Rangers go bust 2014 - Finish 3rd despite being top of the league at the end of January 2015 - Lose the Scottish Cup Final when playing against 10 men 2016 - Skelped 4-1 off Kilmarnock in the Play-off Final 2017- Shut the academy 2018- Sack manager. Finish 8th in the league, (2002 aside) our lowest league finish in decades 2019 - Sack manager. SFA fine. Dennon Lewis incident. Finish 10th, relegated again to League 1 2020 - Sack manager. Miss out on chance of promotion due to Covid19 outbreak Yet I still can't wait for the football to be back... What is wrong with me? Thanks, that really cheered me up... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 On 22/04/2020 at 08:17, sirscottyoung said: How can you give up like that haha. Your in a league spouting about how bad it is to teams and fans who haven't seen their team in the second tier never mind the 1st tier. I can barely remember when east fife were in the second tier in 96ish as was 6 years old and we had a local known paedo at the club so wasnt allowed to go till he was away. Bad times is what followed then for us. Coming near the bottom of the lowest tier available to our clubs at that time. Look at Montrose they were last many times then all of a sudden things hit and they are near the top of third tier in consecutive seasons. Only thing for it is to give your support to your club and try and help be on the journey to get them back up. Don't throw it away cause it's a bit of a shit season after a woeful season... I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirscottyoung Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Last twice and second last a fair amount of other times. Sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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