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JockB

our juniors next season bring it on

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looking forward to the next season of the juniors. 

life is all about making the best of the situation .

look forward to seeing how the east north region leagues get on and how the junior cup pans out it's certainly going to be different and no doubt the usual drama! 

with all the negative posters of the grade off elsewhere i'm sure it will bring back a few passionate junior enthusiasts certainly abundance of them on social media! 

 

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I'm looking forward to the new season as I'm getting sick of no football, but I don't care if it's classed as junior or senior, football is football.

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5 hours ago, Marten said:

I'm looking forward to the new season as I'm getting sick of no football, but I don't care if it's classed as junior or senior, football is football.

Amen to that brother. Pretty sure we'll still be juniors when the new season eventually does kick off. 18 team league would be ideal with 34 games but Luncarty are probably out of here. Were Scone not supposed to be thinking of jumping ship as well? 

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10 hours ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

Amen to that brother. Pretty sure we'll still be juniors when the new season eventually does kick off. 18 team league would be ideal with 34 games but Luncarty are probably out of here. Were Scone not supposed to be thinking of jumping ship as well? 

I haven't heard anything about Scone, I think they're quite happy to stick with Tayside for now. In the end of the day, I just watch my local team regardless of what kind of league they play in!

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So, if there is a proper season to come (unlikely), it looks as though the east north will be one big Tayside league and we will resolutely be remaining juniors. We are very much a victim of geography in that respect. I'm sure that there are a few teams up here who would like to go down the pyramid route and become senior and to be honest I think that one day very soon that will happen, but where will that be? Whether EOS or Highland League teams in and around Dundee are looking at racking up some hefty mileage every second week. Thoughts anyone?

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9 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

So, if there is a proper season to come (unlikely), it looks as though the east north will be one big Tayside league and we will resolutely be remaining juniors. We are very much a victim of geography in that respect. I'm sure that there are a few teams up here who would like to go down the pyramid route and become senior and to be honest I think that one day very soon that will happen, but where will that be? Whether EOS or Highland League teams in and around Dundee are looking at racking up some hefty mileage every second week. Thoughts anyone?

I think the most pragmatic solution is that Tayside and North Superleagues, plus the North Caley become Tier 6 league in their own right, so clubs have access to licencing. Then clubs can access the Highland League. Three feeders mirrors the new Lowland setup. Then, the only clubs that will have issues with travelling are those that choose to make the step up to playing at Tier 5.

Edited by Cyclizine

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33 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

So, if there is a proper season to come (unlikely), it looks as though the east north will be one big Tayside league and we will resolutely be remaining juniors. We are very much a victim of geography in that respect. I'm sure that there are a few teams up here who would like to go down the pyramid route and become senior and to be honest I think that one day very soon that will happen, but where will that be? Whether EOS or Highland League teams in and around Dundee are looking at racking up some hefty mileage every second week. Thoughts anyone?

Its upto the North of Tay East Region members to engage with the pyramid leagues. That is what the West Region have done and that is what the North Region are meant to be doing. The South of Tay East Region members will likely be told to join the EoSFL to access the pyramid.

The North of Tay could easily negotiate their position as a 3rd feeder to the Highland League. Which means on league business they would remain the say as their 2020-21 league set up. The North & Tayside Inter-League Cup would remain intact probably just the one league cup instead of the East of Scotland & League Cups. 

Then as a pyramid league they could discuss with the other pyramid leagues they could advocate for a national non-league cup competition since their isn't a equivalent to the SCC in the North anymore. While also working on licencing to gain a place in the real Scottish Cup.

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Well said Cyclizine, when clubs decide to move upwards, then they choose to travel further for games-  you then attract players who are happy to do so OR are chasing the extra money  that some clubs/leagues offer. Maybe some clubs will think it's a leap too far, into the unknown. Be careful what you are chasing.

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17 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Well said Cyclizine, when clubs decide to move upwards, then they choose to travel further for games-  you then attract players who are happy to do so OR are chasing the extra money  that some clubs/leagues offer. Maybe some clubs will think it's a leap too far, into the unknown. Be careful what you are chasing.

We moved up into the big bad world and we travel 7 miles each way (14, in total) less per game this season on averagebecause we no longer have tayside

Edited by AlanCamelonfan

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14 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

We moved up into the big bad world and we travel 7 miles each way (14, in total) less per game this season on averagebecause we no longer have tayside

Yup. I don't really buy the notion that moving up in the world equates to more travel. East north seems fairly unique in this respect. 

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On 27/04/2020 at 15:53, Jimi Shandrix said:

So, if there is a proper season to come (unlikely), it looks as though the east north will be one big Tayside league and we will resolutely be remaining juniors. We are very much a victim of geography in that respect. I'm sure that there are a few teams up here who would like to go down the pyramid route and become senior and to be honest I think that one day very soon that will happen, but where will that be? Whether EOS or Highland League teams in and around Dundee are looking at racking up some hefty mileage every second week. Thoughts anyone?

Get rid of the highland and lowland leagues and replace them with West, East and North like the juniors had.  Problem solved.  OnE thing the juniors definitely did right was dividing the teams up in a sensible geographic way.

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23 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Well said Cyclizine, when clubs decide to move upwards, then they choose to travel further for games-  you then attract players who are happy to do so OR are chasing the extra money  that some clubs/leagues offer. Maybe some clubs will think it's a leap too far, into the unknown. Be careful what you are chasing.

They are not moving "upwards".  They are moving sideways to another structure that is connected to the main body of teams.  Any team in East Juniors moving sideways will have pretty much the same travel, apart from the odd Borders team.  In terms of geography, EoS league covers East Juniors + Borders and - most of Tayside.  Pretty much no difference, so that's a common misconception that's unbelievably still being bandied about.

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12 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Get rid of the highland and lowland leagues and replace them with West, East and North like the juniors had.  Problem solved.  OnE thing the juniors definitely did right was dividing the teams up in a sensible geographic way.

What was sensible about tayside in with falkirk and the lothians plus eosfl goes further south with coldstream tweedmouth and eyemouth 

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4 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

What was sensible about tayside in with falkirk and the lothians plus eosfl goes further south with coldstream tweedmouth and eyemouth 

Falkirk to Hawick is the same as Falkirk to Carnoustie.  Falkirk to Dundee is the same as Falkirk to Dunbar, or Falkirk to Auchinleck.  Falkirk to Dalbeattie is further than any of these.

One can argue about the exact dividing up of teams, but 3 Tier 5 leagues makes more sense, especially with regard to number of teams instead of trying to cram 150 teams below the Lowland League and only 60 below the Highland, especially when there's more quality in the bigger group.

3 divisions is just more sensible.  Tayside teams can go North or East.  It's a better choice than North or South.

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7 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Falkirk to Hawick is the same as Falkirk to Carnoustie.  Falkirk to Dundee is the same as Falkirk to Dunbar, or Falkirk to Auchinleck.  Falkirk to Dalbeattie is further than any of these.

One can argue about the exact dividing up of teams, but 3 Tier 5 leagues makes more sense, especially with regard to number of teams instead of trying to cram 150 teams below the Lowland League and only 60 below the Highland, especially when there's more quality in the bigger group.

3 divisions is just more sensible.  Tayside teams can go North or East.  It's a better choice than North or South.

Falkirk to dundee is 1 hr 20 mins. Dunbar is 1 hr 5 mins. Plus going north to dundee u have to negotiate two bridges so could take longer. Falkirk clubs could go west as an hour from kilwinning beith etc

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1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Falkirk to dundee is 1 hr 20 mins. Dunbar is 1 hr 5 mins. Plus going north to dundee u have to negotiate two bridges so could take longer. Falkirk clubs could go west as an hour from kilwinning beith etc

10 to 15 minutes is hardly worth arguing about.  No bridges necessary - go up the M90 to Perth then take the A90 to Dundee.  1 hr 15.

 

In any case, travel issues are for clubs in peripheral Locations, who have to make more trips to the "centre" than those like Falkirk, with easy access to Edinburgh, west Lothian, Fife, etc., who might only have to make 3 or 4 "long" trips a season, and might not actually have much more travelling to do than some amateur teams...

And if travel distances are a problem, then more geographical divisions makes sense, hence why I suggested 3 Tier 5 leagues.  Trying to crowbar teams into a 2-pronged pyramid who were  used to playing in a 3-pronged structure (and even then travel issues came up) is not eminently sensible.

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12 minutes ago, mcruic said:

10 to 15 minutes is hardly worth arguing about.  No bridges necessary - go up the M90 to Perth then take the A90 to Dundee.  1 hr 15.

 

In any case, travel issues are for clubs in peripheral Locations, who have to make more trips to the "centre" than those like Falkirk, with easy access to Edinburgh, west Lothian, Fife, etc., who might only have to make 3 or 4 "long" trips a season, and might not actually have much more travelling to do than some amateur teams...

And if travel distances are a problem, then more geographical divisions makes sense, hence why I suggested 3 Tier 5 leagues.  Trying to crowbar teams into a 2-pronged pyramid who were  used to playing in a 3-pronged structure (and even then travel issues came up) is not eminently sensible.

yeh but Tayside teams would have to go to coldstream etc thats the distances you should really look at. My point was you have to draw a line somewhere and it was far enough. So the distance from carnoustie to Falkirk is too far. Then Carnoustie to Coldstream etc is much further

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56 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

yeh but Tayside teams would have to go to coldstream etc thats the distances you should really look at. My point was you have to draw a line somewhere and it was far enough. So the distance from carnoustie to Falkirk is too far. Then Carnoustie to Coldstream etc is much further

But you're picking outliers.  Carnoustie to Wick is twice Carnoustie to Coldstream.  There's only a handful of Borders teams in the EoS and they don't all play in the same division.  

I realise the line had to be drawn somewhere, but it should have been two lines, not one. Carnoustie managed just fine in the East Juniors when Lothian and Fife teams were in it.  It's shorter from Carnoustie to West Lothian than it is from Carnoustie to most towns in Aberdeenshire/Moray.

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4 hours ago, mcruic said:

Get rid of the highland and lowland leagues and replace them with West, East and North like the juniors had.  Problem solved.  OnE thing the juniors definitely did right was dividing the teams up in a sensible geographic way.

You can prattle on about three feeders as much as you want, but it's never going to happen any time soon, the SPFL clubs wanted one feeder. Two was a huge compromise. There's nowhere near enough licenced teams to split North/East/West anyway.

4 hours ago, mcruic said:

They are not moving "upwards".  They are moving sideways to another structure that is connected to the main body of teams.  Any team in East Juniors moving sideways will have pretty much the same travel, apart from the odd Borders team.  In terms of geography, EoS league covers East Juniors + Borders and - most of Tayside.  Pretty much no difference, so that's a common misconception that's unbelievably still being bandied about.

Moving from a hypothetical Tayside Tier 6 to the Highland League is moving upwards, not sure why you're claiming it's not.

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