League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, Pull My Strings said:

There's been a lot of commentary on this case by a lot of folk, not all of whom are fully conversant on the subject matter. Here's Lord Clark's actual notes on the decision. It's not  very long and I think it would benefit most of those with an interest in the subject to read it before posting further. Not aimed at you personally, btw, but there has been a lot of shite posted in this thread.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2020csoh68.pdf?sfvrsn=0

On whether it's a football dispute or a company law dispute, I'll just leave this here.

 

From my ill informed perspective this is the only bit that the judge thought that could bring the football rules into conflict with the wider law. I'd imagine the panel and the SFA will be wary of testing him on it by imposing a penalty on Hearts and Thistle that is than just awarding costs.

Quote

In my view, a further issue arises from a point made by Mr Moynihan QC on behalf
of the SPFL about the disciplinary process and the potential sanctions applicable to SFA
members. I was taken to the SFA’s Judicial Panel Protocol and shown a provision which
applies where a member or an associated person takes a dispute, which is referable to
arbitration in terms of Article 99, to a court of law, in circumstances other than those
expressly provided by the terms of Article 99. The provision refers to penalties of up to
£1,000,000 and/or suspension or termination of the club’s membership of the SFA being
imposed if a court action is raised. In my opinion, the existence of that potential penalty
(which includes expulsion or as Mr Moynihan put it, being put “out of the game”) is a factor
which requires to be considered when analysing the lawfulness or otherwise of Article 99.15.
In response to a question from the court, Mr Borland QC, on behalf of Dundee United, Raith
Rovers and Cove Rangers, accepted that this matter should form part of the context in which
the lawfulness or otherwise of the terms of Article 99.15 fall to be assessed. In this petition,
Hearts and Partick Thistle argue that the decision to accept the Written Resolution which
gave rise to their relegation was unfairly prejudicial, for a number of reasons. These include
that Dundee football club submitted a vote which was against the Written Resolution. On 
behalf of the SPFL, as Mr Moynihan indicated yesterday, it is admitted that this vote was
received at 4.48pm on the day in question. The SPFL explain in their answers to the petition
why the email containing the vote was not seen or read at that time. Hearts and Partick
Thistle contend that if this vote by Dundee had been counted at this time, then the Written
Resolution would not have been passed, the alterations to the rules of the SPFL made by it
would not have occurred and relegation, based on that alteration, would not have
happened. Relegation can plainly have significant financial and other implications for a
football club. On the advice of responsible counsel, Hearts and Partick Thistle brought these
proceedings in court alleging unfair prejudice on that and several other grounds. In my
opinion, questions may arise as to whether in that context a bar on raising legal proceedings
without the permission of the Board of the SFA, subjecting a club which does so to the
potentially extreme sanctions mentioned by senior counsel for the SPFL, can be viewed as
contrary to public policy and hence unlawful. In the absence of detailed submissions, I
cannot reach any concluded view on that matter. It is something which would require to be
addressed in a proper legal debate on this issue.

 

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

"Sympathy" wasn't doing hearts any good anyway.

You weren't getting reinstated either way. At the start I dare say a lot of fans, while laughing at Hearts' predicament, probably did have a soupcon of sympathy for the "it's no' fair" mantra. 

Now I'd say most of us don't give a f***, and if you never appear in the top flight again we won't care. Basically, you can take your maroon pound and stick it up your arse.

[rainbowrising]

9 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

"Sympathy" wasn't doing hearts any good anyway.

If this was aimed at the board with all the bluster of £8m etc I would watch with interest whilst thinking they will lose. However, they are deliberately, actively targeting and aiming to financially bankrupt other clubs in which case they can f**k off.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

"Sympathy" wasn't doing hearts any good anyway.

Ann Budge starting off by pushing for a one year only reconstruction solely to save them from relegation, followed by mass relegation amongst the lower ranks the following year, was a tactically a bit naive for a successful businesswoman. And issuing threats of bankruptcy on the other clubs through her predecessor 2 days before the final vote on reconstruction turned out to be a bit foolhardy. 

[Florentine_Pogen]

"Sympathy" wasn't doing hearts any good anyway.

It would appear that Successful Business Woman Ann Budge isn't either.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

You weren't getting reinstated either way. At the start I dare say a lot of fans, while laughing at Hearts' predicament, probably did have a soupcon of sympathy for the "it's no' fair" mantra. 
Now I'd say most of us don't give a f***, and if you never appear in the top flight again we won't care. Basically, you can take your maroon pound and stick it up your arse.

[Ken Fitlike]

Replace 'y'know' with 'ken'

So let me see if I understand,

From Hearts it’s about unfairness that they have suffered, in isolation to any other “unfairness” suffered by anyone else, because they’re, like, y’know, Hearts, y’know, big club, y’know, won WWI on their own, y’know and they’ve been the only club whose staff have suffered and who have lost munny because the pandemic is out to get them personally, y’know?

Or are they just whiny little brats who are having a tantrum?

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

For what it's worth I was more than happy to "take my medicine" in the championship. We were well on course to "deserving" that outcome. Was quite looking forward to it in fact. hearts were a First Division team when I started following them and yo-yo'd up and down for a while so I'm not as allergic to or embarrassed about playing in the lower leagues as some Jambos seem to be.

However, football is all about the unexpected and there's no doubt Hearts had the time and games to do a Werder Bremen and escape relegation by a whisker. 

My position from the start has been the league was called too early. All the other leagues that called too early have been taken to court so not sure why anyone is surprised Hearts and PT are doing that. If we lose, fair enough. If we win though, it will mean we deserved to win. I wouldn't bet on either outcome but I really want to see what shenanigans went down with that Dundee vote. We all should want that, apart from maybe Dundee.

I hate the current league setup so a 14 team league to me isn't much better. My preference is an 18 team league playing each other twice. However, this is an emergency situation and it annoyed me clubs were looking at reconstruction like some sort of long-term thing. To me, it was no different from the emergency funding being given to people and businesses - a way to ease the pain for people caught up in the pandemic.

The fact is the Scottish Government has allowed professional sport to take place since June 22nd. If the SPFL had held off clubs could have prepared safety protocols etc and have been ready to restart, just as many leagues around the world did. The SPFL chose the wrong course of action and now they're facing the consequences of that. To blame Hearts and Thistle for just doing what clubs in France, Belgium and Holland have done is ridiculous.

 

[Bohemian]

30 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

5 minutes ago, Bohemian said:

 

Way ahead of my time

Edited July 7, 2020 by topcat(The most tip top)
To make it funnier

[TonyFerrino]

1 minute ago, 8GamesToGo said:

The SPFL chose the wrong course of action and now they're facing the consequences of that. 

 

Consequences?  Boredom and exasperation is the extent what everyone outside of Hearts are facing.  And a few quid in legal fees. 

You'll get your parachute payment and a swathe of teams to add to your no Christmas card list and that's about it.  What a result.  

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

4 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

I hate the current league setup so a 14 team league to me isn't much better. 

 

The 14 team idea put forward was worse! The split is or course not everyone's favourite but to have 14 teams and split 6-8 was just a shite idea then playing twice post split.

Just thinking about it there, I know decisions need to make business sense but their idea went directly against what the supporters are crying out for. Less regular games against the same sides. I can see the business sense for top 6 regulars but for the rest of the league it was awful. 

I think most people would agree. 18 team league would be best. Potentially more rationalised below Championship too. Allows clubs to spend more on playing budget and less on travel lower down the leagues?

 

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

3 minutes ago, TonyFerrino said:

Consequences?  Boredom and exasperation is the extent what everyone outside of Hearts are facing.  And a few quid in legal fees. 

You'll get your parachute payment and a swathe of teams to add to your no Christmas card list and that's about it.  What a result.  

Doesn't change the fact we have every right just like the clubs in Belgium, Holland and France. No club with our financial resources would have done anything different from what we're doing now. And it wasn't us who messed up the voting process that led to Lord Clark saying we have a case and refusing to throw it out. So if we have a case why shouldn't we pursue that case? The idea we should just sit back and take it because we had a shit season that happened to be during a pandemic is ridiculous.

[Green Day]

14 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

For what it's worth I was blah blah blah blah blah blah.............................................................................................................................piffle piffle waffle waffle..........................................................

In summary, To blame Hearts is ridiculous.

Aye, thats what I thought you said

 

[Green Day]

2 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

Doesn't change the fact we have every right just like the clubs in Belgium, Holland and France. No club with our financial resources would have done anything different from what we're doing now. And it wasn't us who messed up the voting process that led to Lord Clark saying we have a case and refusing to throw it out. So if we have a case why shouldn't we pursue that case? The idea we should just sit back and take it because we had a shit season that happened to be during a pandemic is ridiculous.

"I will sweam and scweam and scweam" !

Please f**k off back to JKB, we have had loads of you radges on here spouting the same old shite.

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

3 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

The 14 team idea put forward was worse! The split is or course not everyone's favourite but to have 14 teams and split 6-8 was just a shite idea then playing twice post split.

Just thinking about it there, I know decisions need to make business sense but their idea went directly against what the supporters are crying out for. Less regular games against the same sides. I can see the business sense for top 6 regulars but for the rest of the league it was awful. 

I think most people would agree. 18 team league would be best. Potentially more rationalised below Championship too. Allows clubs to spend more on playing budget and less on travel lower down the leagues?

 

 

A 14 team could have been a step towards a better set-up. Who knows. I don't like the 4 games against the same teams year after year, which is why playing in the Championship wasn't a big deal to me, until they said it wouldn't start until October and there are only 27 games.  A temporary reconstruction with a couple of leagues containing all the teams that could start on time would have been ideal. Obviously no chance the OF would go for that.

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

1 minute ago, Green Day said:

"I will sweam and scweam and scweam" !

Please f**k off back to JKB, we have had loads of you radges on here spouting the same old shite.

 

Thanks for the welcome. So you thought there was nothing dodgy about it? At all? Fair enough. The court hearing guy disagreed so we'll get to find out.

Edited July 7, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[Bose]

17 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

The fact is the Scottish Government has allowed professional sport to take place since June 22nd. If the SPFL had held off clubs could have prepared safety protocols etc and have been ready to restart, just as many leagues around the world did. The SPFL chose the wrong course of action and now they're facing the consequences of that. 

 

You keep saying this. Can I ask what sport you would have liked us to play in place of football? 
pretty sure it was only tennis., golf etc. Contact has only been allowed from week as far as I know.

[Green Day]

Just now, 8GamesToGo said:

The court hearing guy

You mean Lord Clark?

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

 

1 minute ago, Bose said:

You keep saying this. Can I ask what sport you would have liked us to play in place of football? 
pretty sure it was only tennis., golf etc. Contact has only been allowed from week as far as I know.

"Professional sport" See below. No mention of tennis etc. The August start is down to the SPFL as per this article, not the Scottish gov. As I said, if they'd wanted to finish the league they could have prepared to do that when an announcement like this happened. Like other leagues did.

 

From The Scotsman, 18 June.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has revealed professional sport can resume on Monday, 22 June.

The confirmation arrived at an announcement of the easing of lockdown restrictions and the country moves into phase two.

Sturgeon outlined the “careful changes” the Scottish Government intend to make to the rules and guidance over the next three weeks.

While sport can resume it will have to do so without supporters.

“Professional sport can resume, although – since strict public health restrictions remain in place – this will only be behind closed doors,” Sturgeon said.

Scottish football fans witnessed the return of the English Premier League in front of empty stadia on Wednesday evening with the English Championship also resuming.

However, the game is not set to resume in Scotland until the start of August when the Scottish Premiership starts, with the rest of the leagues set to follow in October, as per the announcement from the SPFL.

It followed the failure of league reconstruction to gain enough support.