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Sinner-to-Saint

League Reconstruction 20/21 season

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2 hours ago, Green Day said:

I do wonder what will happen to their fans if Hearts (I am not mentioning PTFC as their fans have been broadly ok) lose this?

The craziness and vitriol of JKB isnt the real world, but I did speak to a Jambo of my acquaintance a couple of weeks back and he was of the opinion that the SPFL was entirely wrong and they were getting relegation rescinded.

Now, for me this was just a source of amusement - but I wonder if they have gone so far down the rabbithole that its impossible - even if they lose - to grasp the realities?

 

1 hour ago, Golden Gordon said:

Probably not a popular view, but could those who are convinced that Hearts will gain nothing through court action are also possibly prone to confirmation bias? Don't agree that what Hearts are doing is just, but I would be wary of drawing conclusions until there is feedback from the court as to each side's respective arguments. 

Fully agree with those saying there is confirmation bias on both sides, with none of us knowing how this will go.

I have been pretty taken back at the universal confidence within Hearts' support. The folk who have become over-invested on the other side of the argument seem to at least vary between SPFL fundamentalists and wet gimps who are sure Hearts are going to land on their feet.

Being 100% confident in a legal case they don't understand (having been wrong about every stage of this saga so far) does make it seem like a fanbase who have resorted to dealing in certainties because they canny hack it. 

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16 minutes ago, ribzanelli said:

Did we ever find out how hearts arrived at £8 million? What do they tangibly stand to lose? 5 home gates, tv money, prize money (although they should have a parachute payment)? Don’t see how that comes to 8. What else am I missing?

It's an injustice 

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8 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

 

Fully agree with those saying there is confirmation bias on both sides, with none of us knowing how this will go.

I have been pretty taken back at the universal confidence within Hearts' support. The folk who have become over-invested on the other side of the argument seem to at least vary between SPFL fundamentalists and wet gimps who are sure Hearts are going to land on their feet.

Being 100% confident in a legal case they don't understand (having been wrong about every stage of this saga so far) does make it seem like a fanbase who have resorted to dealing in certainties because they canny hack it. 

It's the guys on Twitter (and JKB, I assume) that have unshakeable belief/confidence in "their lawyers" that make for the best entertainment.

They're 100% sure that, because they've got lawyers involved, that they'll succeed. It's remarkable. 

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23 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

I'm sure they have a lot of scope for judicial action, but the notion of a judge going way over and beyond the petitioner's demands to inflict a ton of damage on Scottish football seems like we're straying into 'maverick judge' territory.

It would be like a small claims dispute between a homeowner and a plumber where the plumber asks for his £500 bill to be paid and the judge orders the demolition of the house instead.

I was really wondering if the judge could award something less than the clubs are asking for. For example, could he say the vote to end the season was flawed, so there should be another vote?  

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1 hour ago, Aim Here said:

The burden of proof is on Hearts. Hearts have to provide a chain of reasoning (and suitable factual backup) to show that the SPFL's process was unlawful and unfair and warrants compensation of £10 million quid. If the SPFL or United knock one link out of that chain, they win. If United's lawyers convince the judge that, say, the outcome of the season end vote was entirely fair, it doesn't matter if Kevin Clancy, acting for the SPFL, puts on a pair of clown shoes, blows a whistle and awards a penalty to Ann Budge. The case still gets chucked.

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if Kevin Clancy subscribed to the Patch Adams approach to litigation, if his refereeing is anything to go by.  It's possibly down to my limited knowledge of how the law operates that I'm erring on the side of caution here.  You obviously have a law degree or work within the legal profession, as you seem to have an understanding of how this process would work.  I could go and research the ins & outs of all this, but that would be like me saying that I'm ready to undertake heart surgery because I've watched some surgical videos on Youtube.

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19 hours ago, King_Of_Kings said:

Cheers, that makes sense. Will be interesting to see what the judge makes of it.

"It's no' fair".

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2 hours ago, Bohemian said:

Still in bed sleeping it off I'd say, he only posts around midnight when hes pissed up looking for an argument or someone to interact with, Sad really.

I'm sure the escorts will be back working soon. 

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6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Full contact training can start on Monday apparently. 

Outstanding news. We've got some prep to put in.

 

JS30586918.jpg

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2 hours ago, Bohemian said:

Who do the RAF fight at the weekends? Is it on telly?

Brain surgeons. 

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2 hours ago, ribzanelli said:

Did we ever find out how hearts arrived at £8 million? What do they tangibly stand to lose? 5 home gates, tv money, prize money (although they should have a parachute payment)? Don’t see how that comes to 8. What else am I missing?

Just about covered their annual wage bill in the last published accounts.

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2 hours ago, ribzanelli said:

Did we ever find out how hearts arrived at £8 million? What do they tangibly stand to lose? 5 home gates, tv money, prize money (although they should have a parachute payment)? Don’t see how that comes to 8. What else am I missing?

Successful businesswoman Ann Budge originally claimed it was down to the loss of gate receipts, prize money and the like. When the Championship was curtailed to 27 rather than 36 games (which I believe is still the case with them starting in October) she lumped another couple of million onto the bill. Then some wag, no doubt the Gollum-esque Deans, convinced her that she should claim for multiple seasons in the Championship just in case they don't make it out first try - somewhere in there they came up with the 8 million figure.

It's doubtful whether we will ever see the figures. They could be leaked of course, but the only way they would need to be published officially is if they put them to the court in terms of a compensation claim. As it is, the court case, I believe, is currently only on the matter that the SPFL fucked up calling the league and thus promotion/relegation is effectively nulled (hence the citing of Rovers, United, Cove - Interestingly no citing of Celtic for being awarded the Premiership title but then we all know she shat the bed there). I don't think it's possible for her to get the court to force reconstruction, so if she wins the "youse fucked up" argument then that's when we'll see what mental back of a fag packet maths they've been working on.

I am no expert btw, it's been too difficult following proceedings while wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes, but that's my take on it.

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24 minutes ago, Ric said:

Interestingly no citing of Celtic for being awarded the Premiership title but then we all know she shat the bed there)

The relief asked for won't materially affect Celtic, in that they 're not trying to unaward the Premiership, merely unrelegate Hearts and Thistle. If it goes to compo, it might hit their prize money, but that goes for all the SPFL clubs.

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2 hours ago, Flash said:

I was really wondering if the judge could award something less than the clubs are asking for. For example, could he say the vote to end the season was flawed, so there should be another vote?  

Thats a waste of time as you'd still get the same result..... they've pissed off to many other clubs now to get a different result.

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2 hours ago, Coventry Saint said:

Outstanding news. We've got some prep to put in.

 

JS30586918.jpg

R.I.P

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5 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Are there the same kind of constraints on media coverage as there are in criminal procedures with a jury?

Exactly the same, but the absence of a jury may mean it's not taken quite so seriously by the judge.

"The primary function of CCA 1981 is to protect the integrity of active court proceedings. It prohibits the media from publishing information that will prejudice ongoing legal cases and in particular trials before juries."

Note the "in particular".

BTW civil cases may also have a jury, with only 12 jurors in Scotland.

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4 hours ago, ribzanelli said:

Did we ever find out how hearts arrived at £8 million? What do they tangibly stand to lose? 5 home gates, tv money, prize money (although they should have a parachute payment)? Don’t see how that comes to 8. What else am I missing?

Charm, good looks, personality?

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31 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Charm, good looks, personality?

Touché!

how can they claim for gate receipts? Relegation in itself doesn’t stop them from having the same number of seats available to anybody who wishes to buy a ticket!

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