League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[wastecoatwilly]

10 hours ago, Rector said:

I see it's time to get the 'Why Colts and B teams are Anathema 101" notes out again.  Oh joy.

If you put colts teams in the league, you *inevitably* destroy the integrity of the league.  This is because, as several of your previous posts state, the *purpose* of them being in the league is *different* from every other club's.  Consequently, decisions about tactics, team selection etc are made not with the same ends in mind as everyone else,  you are not competing on an equal footing.  If these teams work as planned, some of the colts might graduate to the senior side during the season, making the side considerably weaker at the end of the season than at the beginning - not for normal footballing competitive reasons but for a completely separate agenda.

There's no guarantee that the colts played would be Scotland-qualified.  So you are asking the league to ruin itself for the benefit of producing better players for your club.  That's it.  Furthermore, on the slippery-slope principle, it wouldn't be long before the criteria and minimum/maximum age requirements were relaxed and clubs started playing their reserves and not-quite-match-fit recovering injured in the teams.

This situation has come about largely because of the ridiculous stockpiling and hoarding of young talent by a couple of clubs.  Now the proposal is to f**k up League 2 in order to fix a problem that these two clubs created - at *no* extra cost and considerable benefit to themselves.  Why's it the job of League 2 to provide practice matches for your kids/hasbeens?  

Above all, having established finally a pyramid that rewards sporting achievement (after a fashion) on the pitch, two clubs, or however many you think, suddenly get to have an extra team in the league, violating a basic principle of the league - one club, one team.  

And before you start off on 'for the good of the national team/national game' nonsense a) there's no guarantee these colts would be Scotland qualified and b) lets see the sacrifices you're prepared to make for it.  How about, an equitable distribution of prize money, gate sharing and TV money, an end to the 11-1 rule and an expansion of the Prem to 18 clubs.

If you want your kids to develop, loan 'em out.  Even better, stop hoarding them like their loo roll.

Have you took a wee step back and listened to yourself what the feck are you protecting?
All you are saying is "keep off the grass" Celtic will always put young talent out on loan they will always try to get the best they can get that will never change.
If you take the best young talent in the country between the ages of 18 to 21 and put them in league 2 and call them anything you want, fecking glasga colts,perth colts,auld reekie colts it doesn't matter, the idea is to give them the best chance in the game the problem with you lot is you can't see passed the entrenched view.
 

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, The Tackle said:

He gets paid 400k a season to act in the best interests of all clubs, I'm sure a fairer resolution could have been put together.

The onus was on the reconstruction committee to put forward a fair (or simply fairer) resolution, not the chief executive of the SPFL. Ann 'successful businesswoman' Budge was chair of that committee. It produced a crock of utter shite instead and so had its proposal voted down by a crushing majority of member clubs.

Thanks for playing anyway.

[Alan Stubbs]

Given their track record of producing talent, I think Hamilton should get a Colt team in League 2. We’ll see how that goes and maybe other clubs can get Colt teams in the league at some point.

I’m sure Celtic and Rangers would be fine with that.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Alan Stubbs

[RandomGuy.]

15 minutes ago, The Tackle said:

He gets paid 400k a season to act in the best interests of all clubs, I'm sure a fairer resolution could have been put together.

Doncasters job is absolutely not to force through a reconstruction nobody wants for the benefit of a few.

He gave Ann Budge free reign to canvas clubs and build a reconstruction plan, and by most accounts she never even bothered talking to half the clubs. The blame is hers.

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Doncasters job is absolutely not to force through a reconstruction nobody wants for the benefit of a few.

He gave Ann Budge free reign to canvas clubs and build a reconstruction plan, and by most accounts she never even bothered talking to half the clubs. The blame is hers.

She didn't even do that according to Bro Findlay, QC

[Jacksgranda]

36 minutes ago, bluearmyfaction said:

It's possible.  If members do not abide by the other members' rules, why should those members accept them?

 

It would be different if the season-ending decision were illegal, but that's such high threshold.  Essentially, the Hearts/Partick case is that their interests should be preferred over those of the teams that would go up to replace them.  And if the SPFL had voted to annul the season, the teams denied promotion would have the same complaint, mutatis mutandis. 

 

Whatever happens, unless the season gets completed, SOMEone loses out.  It's not unreasonable to rely on performances over the majority of the season at the expense of unplayed games that are the minority.

Somebosy else missing the point of my post.

[Insaintee]

2 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Given their track record of producing talent, I think Hamilton should get a Colt team in League 2. We’ll see how that goes and maybe other clubs can get Colt teams in the league at some point.

I’m sure Celtic and Rangers would be fine with that.

Or just put Hamilton in league 2

[rainbowrising]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Doncasters job is absolutely not to force through a reconstruction nobody wants for the benefit of a few.

He gave Ann Budge free reign to canvas clubs and build a reconstruction plan, and by most accounts she never even bothered talking to half the clubs. The blame is hers.

It has been a real eye opener how many people clearly have no idea of how the SPFL functions and Doncasters job.  I dont rate him much but he takes a kicking for actions driven by the clubs and the supporters are oblivious to it!

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think the "expelled from the senior leagues" is just a misunderstanding. 

Their SPFL membership would be revoked, so they could go into the Lowland League as that's, I believe, SFA run and you dont require an SPFL membership. 

They would obviously have to apply to join that division, and then apply for SPFL membership again if they won promotion. 

The Lowland League is not SFA run it's run by the Lowland League and entry is not by application.

 There are over 100 clubs in feeder leagues under the LL so they can join the queue 

[Stellaboz]

Are you genuinely about to claim the SPFL Premiership is in any way comparable to the EPL?
That's your argument? That they're starting up again but we're not?
Arsenal yesterday hired a fucking private plane to get their players to Manchester to maintain distancing, and then three coaches to get the squad to the match, plus theyve have three testing sessions this week alone.
There is absolutely no way Scottish football could do that, which is why they're waiting until restrictions are lifted even further.

When we sell Nisbet that'd exactly how we'll be traveling to Tynecastle, Starks Park and Recreation Park.

[welshbairn]

I'd love it if Partick get compo after Hearts paying their legal fees and Hearts get fuckall. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The Hearts and PTFC case has two parts -  firstly that they are seeking to have their relegation overturned, and if that fails to seek compensation of the order of this fairy story £10m.

If they fail to have the relegation overturned (lets say because the rules they both signed up to as members of the SPFL allow this to happen), does it even look remotely likely that the continued case will then order punitive damages for exactly the same situation?

It is blatantly obvious that both clubs are simply looking for a few quid to disappear, and in Hearts case to appease the moonhowlers among your support - if the SPFL rules had been breached then this case would have been lodged months ago.

They should be told in no uncertain terms to do one.

 

Hearts are already getting a parachute payment - there is absolutely no other reason they should be given any more for being relegated.

 

[itzdrk]

1 hour ago, rainbowrising said:

no....working capital is how much you have in the bank after allowing for all the liabilities your are due.  League payments are accounted for every season.  You don't really get this do you? You think the SPFL right now has a TSB account with £0.01 in it, don't you? which kind of sums up most of what you write about here.

Neil Doncaster sitting going through all the drawers in the SPFL office looking for coppers to head to a Coinstar machine is a great mental picture.

[Dunning1874]

On 17/06/2020 at 10:30, JTS98 said:

I'm afraid all three of these points are off the mark.

1) Of course I have. My point has always been that the clubs should share the burden around so that we all suffer a bit rather than making a small number of clubs carry the can. Maybe you disagree with that, but that's been my, and many others', position for a long time.

2) That's a philosophically weak point indeed. Clubs have had different fixtures from one another, clubs have had matches recontextualised after they finished. Being in a certain position with more than 20% of the season to go does not mean these clubs should carry the can while everyone else shrugs their shoulders. You know that and if a different side was bottom, I imagine you'd be arguing that very point.

3) No, and I'll reiterate point 1 for you here. I've said that the burden should be shared. It's very simple. Hearts had not been relegated, and imposing that is an injustice. It's far more fair to say we're going to cope with this by reshuffling things a bit so that we all take a manageable hit. That's a simple point, and, again, one I'm sure you'd make with a different league table.

I realise the thread has moved on about 20 pages, but this remains relevant.

You think clubs should be 'sharing the burden' so all clubs take a manageable hit rather than the clubs who finished bottom getting hit. How exactly was the burden being shared under any of the reconstruction proposals which failed?

You say you think it would fairer for clubs to 'all suffer a bit', but even if we were all to accept that premise, what share of the burden do Hearts and Partick take on under reconstruction? You're talking about proposals in which Hearts and Partick don't suffer at all; they would benefit by being bailed out of relegation while everyone else bears the cost. That's not sharing the burden, that's you benefitting at the expense of others.

Looks like we're back to you just wanting something that allows you to satisfy your own self-interest, not caring about the impact on other clubs as long as yours gets everything they want - exactly what Hearts and Partick are accusing others of.

As for the idea that I'd have a different stance if another club was bottom, yeah, I'd definitely be howling about the injustice of it all and holding a candlelit vigil if St Mirren were in Hearts' position.

[CountyFan]

I don't have anywhere near enough greenies for all of this. 

[Golden Gordon]

Have a plus one, it's the thought that counts.

[itzdrk]

1 hour ago, The Tackle said:

There were plenty of chances to reconstruct the leagues in a fair way to avoid punishing member clubs but the small minded clubs opted for self interest. This is the last resort.

There were, it didn't suit the majority of clubs at any step. 

[Fife Saint]

Nuclear event about to erupt from West Edinburgh when they see the new UEFA Ethics committee lineup.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Fife Saint said:

Nuclear event about to erupt from West Edinburgh when they see the new UEFA Ethics committee lineup.

Neil Doncaster handed major UEFA role as SPFL chief joins ethics and disciplinary board

[Mr. X]

9 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

I don't have anywhere near enough greenies for all of this.