yoda Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I think, had we known the season was going to end after 30 games, contrary to the claims of other posters, Ross County would have actually beaten Hearts in Dingwall. That means Hearts finish on 22 points. I don't make the rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, JTS98 said: I think you just need to read this thread to see that Hearts' status is certainly a source of joy for some. Aberdeen would get the same treatment. It's not really a surprise. People enjoy big clubs struggling. Nobody is pretending we're Real Madrid. Not necessarily. It's true that bigger clubs will get more stick and obviously fans of Hibs and a few others didn't need much of an invitation to stick the boot in. If you don't think the seemingly widespread lack of sympathy for Hearts is your own club and fans' doing, you're at it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, welshbairn said: If Scottish clubs want to take part in UEFA competitions the SFA have to abide by its rules. FIFA are also strict about these matters. I’d say FIFA/UEFA’s bluff was called a long, long time ago. Jean Marc Bosman?The king has got no clothes on. And what exactly are FIFA/UEFA doing to be “strict about these matters” in the current Belgian and French cases? You are whistling in the dark with that threat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said: Not necessarily. It's true that bigger clubs will get more stick and obviously fans of Hibs and a few others didn't need much of an invitation to stick the boot in. If you don't think the seemingly widespread lack of sympathy for Hearts is your own club and fans' doing, you're at it. If you don't agree that the club I hate are a bunch of c***s, then you're at it. Is basically your argument. Good one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Quote "I think 42 senior clubs is too many for Scotland. "You're looking at about half that number." Ann Budge Jambo Kickback 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Jambo Kickback Do we know for definite who voted Hearts to be demoted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Romeo said: Do we know for definite who voted Hearts to be demoted? Yes we do. Nobody did. Hearts were relegated because they were rubbish. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, welshbairn said: If Scottish clubs want to take part in UEFA competitions the SFA have to abide by its rules. FIFA are also strict about these matters. And if they want to take part in any competitions at all they have to abide by the law of the land. There is nothing wrong with internal SFA tribunals and the CAAS (and indeed the courts encourage parties to use such routes), but the ultimate arbiter of any dispute in Scotland is the court system. The SFA cannot legally deny their members access to that. FIFA and EUFA are not above national and international law, as some of their officials have found to their cost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 45 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Your ex-player, now lawyer, doesn’t agree. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-winnie-is-fearful-of-lasting-damage-as-relegated-pair-go-to-court-z0rkv5w2d David Winnie, a Scottish Cup winner with St Mirren who also turned out for Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee, knows the game but his legal eye sets him apart as member clubs prepare to take action against Scottish football. Winnie, the head of sports law at Mayfair-based Charles Douglas Solicitors LLP, believes that the process of bringing Scottish football grinding to a halt may have already begun. The 53-year-old also warned that Hearts and Partick Thistle going down the judicial route could do irreparable damage to the Scottish game, both financially and by fomenting resentment which will take years to dissipate. “When you look at sums of £6-7 million being bandied about as the cost to Hearts of not being in the top tier this season, I don’t think they had any other option but to do this,” he said. “The cost of taking this action will be outweighed by the financial cost of demotion so, from their perspective, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain in that regard. The way things have gone with reconstruction, this was always likely to end up in court. “Hearts have two causes of action contractually. Regarding membership of the SPFL, it’s an agreement between the clubs and the body itself and the clubs are party to a contract with the SPFL and each other. “If the SPFL, by omission or by failing to follow its own corporate framework in passing a written resolution, will be in breach of that contract. You need to take it back to the issue of Dundee’s ‘missing’ vote. “As far as I can see, the original ‘no’ vote from Dundee [which opposed ending the season] should have stood. Their secretary, Eric Drysdale, confirmed that the vote had been sent and that it had been received: it wasn’t a bounce back. “In company law, there is no obligation on any member to cast a negative vote. Generally, members will vote in favour of a resolution and, if they don’t reply, they’re not in favour. “However, what had been invited in terms of this resolution was a submission by clubs as to whether they were for or against the motion to end the season. When Dundee voted no, that should have stood. “I also think there was also a lack of information provided to the members on which to base their decisions, specifically the fact that money would need to be repaid to Sky for unfulfilled fixtures. You could argue as to whether or not that information was material but the financial implications for Hearts are catastrophic.” Season 2020-21 will be the most compressed in the game’s history, with competitions being carried over from last season due to the Covid-19 crisis at one end and an early close to accommodate the displaced Euro 2020 finals at the other, and Winnie anticipates that state of affairs worsening. “If I was advising Hearts, I would seek an interim interdict on the Premiership season starting, on the grounds that they should be involved in it. In fact, given that they announced their intention to take the SPFL to court immediately after their reconstruction plan was voted down on Monday, I suspect that they have already done so. “That would provide the SPFL with a logistical nightmare when it comes to delivering a fixture list. Ideally, this case will be fast-tracked at the Court of Session — the window is narrowing so the ruling must be expedited. If not, it may drag on for months and, if the ruling is in Hearts’ favour, then the Premiership would need to be restarted with them in it, which could lead to chaos and more contractual trouble with the broadcasters. “I would also seek compensation for being relegated when there was a mathematical possibility that Hearts could have survived. Even if that amounted to only half of their projected losses for next season, that is money that would be paid for by the other members. “Factor in Partick Thistle’s parachute payment and you could be looking at the other 40 clubs each losing around £100,000. Celtic are the only ones who can afford that — this action has the potential to decimate Scottish football. “The game isn’t meant to be played out in court and the judge shouldn’t be the referee. However this ends, no one will be happy and there will be a whole host of ill will directed at Hearts and Thistle. “I have sympathy for the SPFL board, who were attempting to deal with a situation which was truly unprecedented. They have admitted to making mistakes but those procedural errors will provide Hearts with ammunition. It will still be difficult for them to succeed and, ultimately, there will be no winners.” I hope that he's a better lawyer than he was a player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 The Dundee vote wasn't the deciding vote. Would be very amusing if Hearts' legal challenge only resulted in Dundee's vote being changed to a 'Yes', which wouldn't change things at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 17 hours ago, Jacksgranda said: Would it not be simpler to intoduce a new rule for clubs promoted to the Premiership? A total seated capacity of say, I don't know, 14,225, with immediate effect. Would that solve the problem of keeping Hearts in the top flight? Shh! I thought we'd agreed not to mention the 'Aberdeen defence '. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, bennett said: The price of calling the league early grows. BT SPORT is locked in a £3 MILLION compensation fight with the SPFL after the season was ended early. The broadcaster’s seven-year relationship with Scottish football ended last month as the SPFL wrapped up the top-flight campaign with nine games to play because of the Covid-19 crisis It’s also believed BBC Scotland want compensation for radio and TV coverage they’ve missed out on. Sky Sports agreed a cut-price exit deal on June 3, but BT Sport, who refused to comment, want the full amount Assuming BT and the BBC are entitled to recompense for the unfinished season, it's important to know if the clubs were fully informed of this before the vote to end the season. Even if the exact sums involved weren't known, the SPFL Board would have had a rough idea based on the value of the contract, games remaining etc. If the clubs weren't informed, that might actually be grounds for the vote to be annulled. As with France, however, that wouldn't be the same as ruling relegation unlawful. It just means the vote needs to be taken again and Hearts will still be relegated (but with the added bonus of Neil Doncaster almost certainly getting his jotters). Edit: this was one of the things mentioned in the infamous Sevco dossier. The SPFL response at the time wasn't exactly transparent: Quote “There is no question of the board failing to advise the clubs of a potential £10 million (or any other size of claim) arising because the Premiership is brought to a premature end because of a decision either of the members or of the board,” it read. “That was not reported to you because it is simply not the case. The central complaint of Rangers is simply wrong and is based on a complete misunderstanding of the situation in which the League and its broadcast partners find themselves.” Even if the £10m was wildly inaccurate, the "or any other size of claim" read in conjunction with "that was not reported to you because it is simply not the case" does raise a question. Edited June 17, 2020 by The Master -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, JTS98 said: If you don't agree that the club I hate are a bunch of c***s, then you're at it. Is basically your argument. Good one. Not really Looks like we've reached the 'okay well I guess I'm just a terrible person, FINE THEN' level of debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, JTS98 said: I think you just need to read this thread to see that Hearts' status is certainly a source of joy for some. Aberdeen would get the same treatment. It's not really a surprise. People enjoy big clubs struggling. Nobody is pretending we're Real Madrid. I'm certainly enjoying it. The amount of money I've spent going down to Tynecastle in the past ten seasons or so only to see us lose. I'm so bitter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 15 hours ago, Roy McGregor brown stuff said: Oh god!! Folk really thinking Donald Findlay dismantled the legal argument? He man was all over the shop. Without any irony, he said that Brechin deserved to stay up as they could’ve won the play-off game.. That logic for some reason couldn’t be applied to Thistle, Hearts and Stranraer!! Don’t think I’d want him defending me in a court these days. Carry on lads. They're not in a play-off position. All teams in play-off positions missed out, too. Including Cowdenbeath, who are going to have to try again next season - without any loanees from Hearts, apparently. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: The Dundee vote wasn't the deciding vote. Would be very amusing if Hearts' legal challenge only resulted in Dundee's vote being changed to a 'Yes', which wouldn't change things at all. The Dundee vote is a bit of a red herring. That particular vote didn't end the Premiership, it was an entirely separate vote weeks later by all of the Premiership clubs that ended our season, nothing whatsoever to do with Dundee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Just now, kingjoey said: The Dundee vote is a bit of a red herring. That particular vote didn't end the Premiership, it was an entirely separate vote weeks later by all of the Premiership clubs that ended our season, nothing whatsoever to do with Dundee. Yup, yet some see it as a big smoking gun in the legal challenge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, kingjoey said: The Dundee vote is a bit of a red herring. That particular vote didn't end the Premiership, it was an entirely separate vote weeks later by all of the Premiership clubs that ended our season, nothing whatsoever to do with Dundee. That's not quite true. The vote ended the lower leagues and gave the board the power to end the Premiership. The board just didn't end it until they had consulted the top flight sides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Roy McGregor brown stuff said: DF’s football chairmanship in recent years has gone the same way as his QC career. As for legal argument, he said enough that Hearts/Thistle will jump upon. I don’t claim to know for one minute how this will turn out. What I do know for a fact is that the SPFL (ergo member clubs) have kicked the can far enough down the road re reconstruction votes for maximum chaos to be ensued. Championship not due to start until October. No rush if that’s where Hearts or Thistle find themselves. Premiership restart on 1/8 now only 5 weeks away. You don’t need to be a hotshot lawyer to get an interdict against it starting. Ross County, Hamilton & St Mirren living week to week with TV monies their get out of jail card. Can they wait for any appeal of final court case result regardless of Hearts/Thistle being successful? Another vote held? Sky want to renegotiate? When you realise the answer to all 3 is ‘no’. You’ll realise what happens next. Carry on lads. Edited June 17, 2020 by Jacksgranda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Bohemian said: Carry on Hearts... How cruel, implying they're not even big enough to be stabbed in the back... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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