Staggie52 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Until when? It was time limited It wasn’t time limited, still isn’t as far as football is concerned, although that could change on Thursday. All the indications from China, Italy and Spain indicated it would take months to control the spread of the virus. That was the advice being given at the time, formal reviews were scheduled on intervals of 3 weeks. The Scottish Government has been clear from the start that they would take a precautionary approach. Any suggestion now that there was uncertainty about it being a short lockdown in Scotland is misguided, if not wilful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: If we accept that calling the season was the only option available to draw a line under 19/20 then it's pointless getting into what would have happened with this result and that result. It's not pointless. It speaks to who has been wronged and how. Hearts have had some big games recontextualised after the fact and are being told we just have to suck up a relegation based on that. That's a nonsense. I think offering clubs a bigger league for a while with increased relegation for one year down the tracks is a perfectly fair solution. Relegating a team in circumstances like Hearts have been is about the worst option a sporting organisation can take. Very few have. Edited June 17, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Livi. Conservatories. DIY “amusing” songs. The ghosts of Ferranti Thistle, the 1980s and Richard fcking Stillgoe are still with us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazil85 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 On 12/06/2020 at 18:14, wastecoatwilly said: I think there is merit in both colt teams and flinging 18 to 21 into first teams to gain that experience,the u 20's playing u 20's works to a point. What seems to be missing is playing against seasoned pros whether it's a B team or a reserve team playing 50 games cutting their teeth and learning the trade. In many ways Tierney was a good example of that also Hickey at hearts both flung in at the deep end and told to sink or swim. Imagine having a full team sinking and swimming. Between Andy Robertson and Callum McGregor there is not much difference apart from the last 3 years, both 26 Robertson got into Hull's first team at 20 and Callum got into Celtic's first team at 20 both playing at decent levels with Callum also having European experience, Robertson has obviously kicked on at club level with Liverpool in Europe and domestically. The part both need to improve on is at international level,it's pretty much the same for John McGinn and Ryan Christie with similar career paths. Like Darren Fletcher are we seeing the same pattern with McTominey but maybe this time he has the players around him to make the difference. Christie scoring against Cyprus and Forrest getting his hat trick against Israel is decent but I agree consistency is the problem but the individual ability is there (Lazio results). The SFA have came up with all sorts of ideas over the years but never seem to see them through to the end leave project Brave alone for me it has both pros and cons. I agree but the merit is only for Celtic and Rangers, it isn't going to produce a bunch of players far better than what we have available in the current Scotland squad and that's what we need. We need players that are better by some distance than the general standard of Celtic and them having a colt team won't produce that, it may provide a few homegrown quality players to save them in the transfer market but they aren't going to develop in mass players better than Eduard, Brown, Rogic, etc which is the level we need to be producing. Tierney has developed to a very decent standard playing from a young age against much better opponents than L2, it further cements that generally better players need a higher level. And the difference the last three years has been incomparable. Robertson only played for QP for one season, he isn't a basis for colt teams working, he's very much an exception and a player that fell down lower than he needed to. Also who's to say playing with seasoned pros also didn't contribute to his development at that stage? That's not something the Colts will get. It gets to the stage where with everyone needing to improve at international level it must be something else & that is collectively we don't have a strong enough team at international level. We need Robertson, McTominey, Fletcher to be the standard not the exceptions. Christie and Forrest are no where near good enough for where we need Scotland to be (either are most of the English league players that get in the squad), that shows in the level Celtic operate at club level. Lazio is flash in the pan stuff, if we want to look at European results in isolation, fine but it makes much more sense to look at Celtic as a collective in Europe over the last few years. At best a make up the numbers team in the CL, at worst a last 32 team in the lessor European tournament, not good enough for where we want to be. My gripe with Project Brave is the near complete lack of communication. We're going on three years without an official SFA led communication. I know it's a long-term fix but there's no excuse not to update your major stakeholders (fans) Anyway, I know that went on a bit, I'm just glad once again Colts are in the bin, for all the above reasons I hope they remain in there and we don't need to have this debate in another couple years. The positive for me is Doncaster seen fit to have a vote on a proposal with less than 40% backing but not the colts. That tells me the general appetite for Colts has to be a fair bit below 40% hopefully Celtic and Rangers take this on with any future Scottish youth development projects and don't include a plan that's always going to be doomed to failure. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, JTS98 said: No. I don't think you've grasped my post at all. I'm saying that St Mirren, Hamilton, Hibs, Aberdeen, whoever, would be acting exactly as we are in our position. You've got it the wrong way round. I honestly don't think we would. If we'd be by a mile the worst team in the division and stinking up the league all season. If we'd pished millions up against the wall. I think would have accepted that we go down and wouldn't try and use a glabal pandemic as an excuse. Also we would not be banging on about how the top division needs us and without us all the other clubs would loose money. Nor would we expect a temporary fix just keep us up. We wouldn't expect 42 clubs to vote against their best interests just to improver ours. We wouldn't waste money and time on "court cases" with no hope of sucess and we wouldn't be sucking of Tom English just for a few fluff pieces. Nah don't think we would. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Read the papers, mate. Swing by Twente, Lyon, Alkmaar, Amiens, Utrecht. Then maybe take a trip down the leagues to Cambuur and Tranmere. Yes, there's a lot of grumbling and talk of legal action. I am struggling to find any evidence of repeated attempts to foist a detrimental reconstruction via coercion, any "the Eredivisie needs Utrecht more than the Eerste Divisie does", 'financial inducements' from 'mysterious benefactors' or indeed any talk of boycotts and hoping other clubs die. And no tear stained, threatening letters from estate agents either. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, JTS98 said: It's not pointless. It speaks to who has been wronged and how. Hearts have had some big games recontextualised after the fact and are being told we just have to suck up a relegation based on that. That's a nonsense. I think offering clubs a bigger league for a while with increased relegation for one year down the tracks is a perfectly fair solution. Relegating a team in circumstances like Hearts have been is about the worst option a sporting organisation can take. Very few have. It's pointless in the sense that the league has been called and PPG used to determine how it ended. That was voted on democratically. Reconstruction is a separate issue. I was fine with a temporary fix but many clubs weren't and I fully understand why. It's not the grave injustice you make out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Insaintee said: I honestly don't think we would. If we'd be by a mile the worst team in the division and stinking up the league all season. If we'd pished millions up against the wall. I think would have accepted that we go down and wouldn't try and use a glabal pandemic as an excuse. Also we would not be banging on about how the top division needs us and without us all the other clubs would loose money. Nor would we expect a temporary fix just keep us up. We wouldn't expect 42 clubs to vote against their best interests just to improver ours. We wouldn't waste money and time on "court cases" with no hope of sucess and we wouldn't be sucking of Tom English just for a few fluff pieces. Nah don't think we would. Interesting view. Based on the fact that no club anywhere is behaving like that, I'd respectfully venture that you're completely wrong and attaching imagined virtue to your club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Yes, there's a lot of grumbling and talk of legal action. I am struggling to find any evidence of repeated attempts to foist a detrimental reconstruction via coercion, any "the Eredivisie needs Utrecht more than the Eerste Divisie does", 'financial inducements' from 'mysterious benefactors' or indeed any talk of boycotts and hoping other clubs die. And no tear stained, threatening letters from estate agents either. Worth mentioning the French clubs were appealing because they never got to vote on the matter, and the Dutch sides were appealing because the league didn't use the outcome of a vote. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: Worth mentioning the French clubs were appealing because they never got to vote on the matter, and the Dutch sides were appealing because the league didn't use the outcome of a vote. Indeed, it's almost as if these examples are happening under different circumstances and jurisdictions, 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 56 minutes ago, Ric said: Why is this thread still going on? The matter is finished, Heart of Seethelothian are relegated and no amount of raking over the ashes can change that. We're gloating Ric, that's why it's still going on. And the idiots are rising to the bait 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Can you give me an example of any top-flight club in Europe who have behaved like Hearts ? The **** 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Interesting view. Based on the fact that no club anywhere is behaving like that, I'd respectfully venture that you're completely wrong and attaching imagined virtue to your club. Hearts are 11 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Interesting view. Based on the fact that no club anywhere is behaving like that, I'd respectfully venture that you're completely wrong and attaching imagined virtue to your club. Hearts are 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 On 16/06/2020 at 09:28, Pet Jeden said: And for that very same reason I would like us to change our national anthem from one that drones about 14th century battles! A Man's A Man please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Worth mentioning the French clubs were appealing because they never got to vote on the matter, and the Dutch sides were appealing because the league didn't use the outcome of a vote. Still wondering how that was allowed to happen. Does the Dutch system allow unilateral action by the KNVB? Is that how they ended up with reserve sides in the league structure? No wonder the press keep banging on about how their system will solve all our problems. Also, Seventies gag about the French never being appealing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Golden Gordon said: A Man's A Man please. I thought we decided on Bits and Pieces a while back? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, BigFatTabbyDave said: I thought we decided on Bits and Pieces a while back? Just catching up, may have missed this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: If you're suggesting that Hearts & Partick should have pursued justice through the courts earlier as opposed to a doomed attempt to find a consensus solution then that's a fair point But only with the benefit of hindsight. As it turns out the decision was always going to be as democratic as a gang rape Depends what you consider 'justice' to be in this instance. It's always easier with hindsight tbf, although I can say with certainty that I wouldn't have wanted Hibs to go down the route Hearts have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, Staggie52 said: It wasn’t time limited, still isn’t as far as football is concerned, although that could change on Thursday. All the indications from China, Italy and Spain indicated it would take months to control the spread of the virus. That was the advice being given at the time, formal reviews were scheduled on intervals of 3 weeks. The Scottish Government has been clear from the start that they would take a precautionary approach. Any suggestion now that there was uncertainty about it being a short lockdown in Scotland is misguided, if not wilful. I'd be amazed if the emergency powers used were not time limited. There's the law, there's government advice and there's NHS advice. Only the first of these 3 is actually enforceable (hence the Dominic Cummings fiasco) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Insaintee said: We're gloating Ric, that's why it's still going on. Personally... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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