Pet Jeden Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, theauldyin said: LOCKDOWN FFS ! Yes, but was it lockdown till Aug or June at that point? Genuine question. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 It is of course impossible to say how other clubs and their fanbases would have reacted had they been in this position. Imo, most clubs would have accepted relegation was a fait accompli after the first abortive attempt at reconstruction, had a wee grumble, then looked to get some sort of financial compensation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: It is of course impossible to say how other clubs and their fanbases would have reacted had they been in this position. Imo, most clubs would have accepted relegation was a fait accompli after the first abortive attempt at reconstruction, had a wee grumble, then looked to get some sort of financial compensation. Can you give me an example of any top-flight club in Europe who has behaved like that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dons_1988 Posted June 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, JTS98 said: 1) 'Sympathy' is meaningless PR bullshit. I think that's the point there. 2) Yes, I think it is. It's unprecedented in modern sport and I think changing things around to avoid it was justified. You don't, that's life. 3) Hearts suggested a temporary change, which I thought was best. Change for three or four years would have been my choice. Eventually there'll be more relegation, but clubs get the benefit of it being harder to be relegated for three years and then have the notice that more relegation is coming. People didn't want temporary, others didn't want permanent. What to do. I think temporary change made perfect sense. 4) I think you can criticise clubs for hanging a small number out to dry. You don't. That's life. 1) If there was no sympathy reconstruction would never have even been discussed. There was no other reason to. In that respect, you could be right. We could have saved ourselves a lot of time if we'd all just said f**k Hearts. 2) Indeed, that's life. The Scottish game needs a fundamental revamp to improve all aspects of it. To push through some rushed job in the space of a few weeks because Hearts don't want a season in the Championship would have been a travesty, in all honesty. 3) I would have accepted a temporary change, as I did sympathise with Hearts position. However, it's obvious to understand why your regular bottom 6 clubs wouldn't entertain 3 teams being relegated in a few years time. I'm not sure 'more notice' of increased relegation is really any comfort to them. 4) You, like English, are framing the reconstruction vote as 'vote for justice, or vote to be a selfish c**t'. It's simplistic, patronising and not the case. Hearts and other failed to make the case for reconstruction. As simple as that. There needed to be more benefit to reconstruction for all clubs beyond 'this isn't fair'. There was never anything to vote for. Edited June 17, 2020 by Dons_1988 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggie52 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: You might be right - except that the Dundeegate board paper was concocted at the end of March and beginning of April. What was the law at that point? We were in total lockdown, the Scottish Government shut shops, pubs etc 20 March, the UK Government initiated total shutdown on 23 March. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4mmy31 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said: Good morning Jambos! Bravo sir..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: 3) I would have accepted a temporary change, as I did sympathise with Hearts position. However, it's obvious to understand why your regular bottom 6 clubs wouldn't entertain 3 teams being relegated in a few years time. I'm not sure 'more notice' of increased relegation is really any comfort to them. 4) You, like English, are framing the reconstruction vote as 'vote for justice, or vote to be a selfish c**t'. It's simplistic, patronising and not the case. Hearts and other failed to make the case for reconstruction. As simple as that. There needed to be more benefit to reconstruction than for all clubs beyond 'this isn't fair'. There was never anything to vote for. I think point 3 is quite straightforward. You've got less chance of being relegated from a 14 than a 12 and more chance of returning quickly. That's what clubs were being offered and they decided not to take it. I'm not sure they've all made a wise move there. Doesn't matter now. Point 4 depends on how you define 'selfish' really. I don't think there's any other way to describe the behaviour and words of some clubs. I'm not sure you can really criticise that too heavily, they do what they think is best. But an equal balance to that is that all the people giving it the 'go down with dignity' stuff are basically saying Hearts should somehow behave differently to everyone else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: I think point 3 is quite straightforward. You've got less chance of being relegated from a 14 than a 12 and more chance of returning quickly. That's what clubs were being offered and they decided not to take it. I'm not sure they've all made a wise move there. Doesn't matter now. That's on a permanent basis. Point 3 was regarding temporary. 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: Point 4 depends on how you define 'selfish' really. I don't think there's any other way to describe the behaviour and words of some clubs. I'm not sure you can really criticise that too heavily, they do what they think is best. But an equal balance to that is that all the people giving it the 'go down with dignity' stuff are basically saying Hearts should somehow behave differently to everyone else. I said already I'm not particularly interested in the noise and squabbling. Hearts had every right to fight their corner. They didn't do it very well though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Can you give me an example of any top-flight club in Europe who has behaved like that? Can you give me an example of any top-flight club in Europe who have behaved like Hearts ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: It is of course impossible to say how other clubs and their fanbases would have reacted had they been in this position. Imo, most clubs would have accepted relegation was a fait accompli after the first abortive attempt at reconstruction, had a wee grumble, then looked to get some sort of financial compensation. Not if a board (packed with self interest) pushed only one of the potential solutions, attached a £9m carrott to it, glossed over consequential TV losses, and required a 48 hour decision. The courts can judge whether that can stand. You’re right about all the fannying about with reconstruction alternatives. But maybe that has been a charade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: That's on a permanent basis. Point 3 was regarding temporary. Yeah. And in exchange for Hearts not getting binned this year, everybody would get a few years where it was harder to get relegated and easier to get promoted again before life returned to normal. I don't really see a problem with that. Of course there's one season with more relegation, but only after several where it's easier to stay up. I think that was a fair solution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Staggie52 said: We were in total lockdown, the Scottish Government shut shops, pubs etc 20 March, the UK Government initiated total shutdown on 23 March. Until when? It was time limited 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Can you give me an example of any top-flight club in Europe who have behaved like Hearts ? Read the papers, mate. Swing by Twente, Lyon, Alkmaar, Amiens, Utrecht. Then maybe take a trip down the leagues to Cambuur and Tranmere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: Yeah. And in exchange for Hearts not getting binned this year, everybody would get a few years where it was harder to get relegated and easier to get promoted again before life returned to normal. I don't really see a problem with that. Of course there's one season with more relegation, but only after several where it's easier to stay up. I think that was a fair solution. It's not easy to get promoted from the Championship. If you suffer relegation in the 3 teams down season and it goes back to normal, you might find it very difficult to get back up if you are say Hamilton Accies, who have made herculean efforts to stay in the league over such a long period. You say having notice of increased relegation helps them, they would probably say it's a few years for Hearts to start using their budget competently and be one less team in the conversation for relegation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: It's not easy to get promoted from the Championship. If you suffer relegation in the 3 teams down season and it goes back to normal, you might find it very difficult to get back up if you are say Hamilton Accies, who have made herculean efforts to stay in the league over such a long period. You say having notice of increased relegation helps them, they would probably say it's a few years for Hearts to start using their budget competently and be one less team in the conversation for relegation. Exactly. Everyone gets something. That's fairer than what's happening now. I just think you're chasing your tail if you try to justify moving the goalposts on a 38-game season and suddenly saying after 30 games that a team is now going down. I think there are few worse alternatives to that. Do Hearts push a bit harder for a winner in their 0-0 draw at Ross County if they know how close to the end of the season they are? Do they rest the same players? At the time, it seemed a decent result to round off a good week. There are all kinds of questions it throws up, and it's fundamentally wrong. Like I said, I think most alternatives are better. Edited June 17, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said: Good morning Jambos! Love the fact the piece he has put together makes him really happy. Always better to listen to music when the composer is enthusiastic about their work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Wonder when the SFA will stop fannying about and apply the rule book. https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5648689/hearts-sfa-membership-revoked-court/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Exactly. Everyone gets something. That's fairer than what's happening now. I just think you're chasing your tail if you try to justify moving the goalposts on a 38-game season and suddenly saying after 30 games that a team is now going down. I think there are few worse alternatives to that. Do Hearts push a bit harder for a winner in their 0-0 draw at Ross County if they know how close to the end of the season they are? Do they rest the same players? At the time, it seemed a decent result to round off a good week. There are all kinds of questions it throws up, and it's fundamentally wrong. Like I said, I think most alternatives are better. I don't think we're ever going to agree, and that's fine. I find the last few paragraphs slightly irrelevant as we've discussed to death the cons of the season ending early. Every team has unfairly benefited or been wronged by it. We might have finished 3rd if the season had been called 24 hours later than it was. It's just a handful of clubs who have felt that injustice the most, undoubtedly. If we accept that calling the season was the only option available to draw a line under 19/20 then it's pointless getting into what would have happened with this result and that result. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said: Good morning Jambos! Livi. Conservatories. DIY “amusing” songs. The ghosts of Ferranti Thistle, the 1980s and Richard fcking Stillgoe are still with us. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.