League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Mr. X]

10 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

12 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

They are stalling on (£150k?) refunds for 2019-20 season tickets until they get an insurance pay out confirmed. Now they have suspended sales of season ticket sales for next season. The 2019 Accounts showed net liabilities of £2.58m. What could it all mean, I wonder? Maybe one of these jolly Dee boys can help explain.

f**k me, diets no more, you guys have now gone full blown H*n.

Your choice of language doesn't convey a position of neutrality on the sectarian fuckwit measure. 

[The Master]

8 hours ago, MAC THE KNIFE said:

SO HOW MUCH ARE SKY / BT SPORTS BILLING THE ENGLISH FOOTBALL LEAGUES  & THE RUGBY LEAGUE / YAWNION LEAGUES FOR DISRUPTING THEIR TV  SPORTS SCHEDULES ? 

 

8 hours ago, JimmyMirren said:

I’d be interested to see how BT Sport and the Beeb would try to enforce such a claim.

Most contracts involving such an unpredictable thing such as football fixtures (which could be affected by weather, changes in scheduling, etc) would have a ‘force majeure’ clause in the contract.

Effectively one or both parties could be relieved of contractual obligations (such as providing a certain number of games to broadcasters) if such an obligation proves impossible to fulfil due to an unexpected event such as a natural disaster, war, or major event. The Covid 19 pandemic could well be considered as such an event and with the Government at both WM and Holyrood imposing social distancing measures, restrictions on gatherings and sporting events, and imposing a lockdown its highly likely a judge would look sympathetically on relieving  obligations should such a clause be included in the contracts between the SPFL and the broadcasters.

I think it’s more likely to just be the gutter press trying to find a story now they can’t keep printing stories about how Hearts and Partick “might” stay in their respective leagues. Slow news day...

Sky have received rebates from several sports, including the Premier League:

https://www.ft.com/content/5bd255e4-2f64-471c-9949-c150b4675fd2

I would find it hard to believe that the SPFL is the only governing body to award a TV contract that won't require compensation to be paid out. 

[AberdeenHibee]

14 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

No. I don't think you've grasped my post at all.

I'm saying that St Mirren, Hamilton, Hibs, Aberdeen, whoever, would be acting exactly as we are in our position.

You've got it the wrong way round.

Here is why you are completely wrong about that:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36999758

None of our chairwomen or chairmen have made consistently snide, smug and condescending remarks such as (and yes, these are direct quotes by Ann Budge in 2016):

"I think 42 senior clubs is too many for Scotland".

"You're looking at about half that number". 

"We're not throwing people to the dogs and saying you don't matter. We should be saying this is what will work better for you, what fits your profile."

Those kind of comments remove any form of credibility behind any of her demands.  A mere 4 years ago she was all against expansion because she looked down on the so-called "smaller clubs" when Hearts were a mid-table team.  The crass smear campaign she is trying to run behind the veil of altruism is a complete sham and 62% of clubs have seen straight through it.   At least if St Mirren, Hamilton, Hibs, Aberdeen, whoever were giving this a go, it wouldn't be so exceptionally hypocritical and therefore actually semi-believable. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by AberdeenHibee

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, AberdeenHibee said:

Here is why you are completely wrong about that:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36999758

None of our chairwomen or chairmen have made consistently snide, smug and condescending remarks such as (and yes, these are direct quotes by Ann Budge in 2016):

"I think 42 senior clubs is too many for Scotland".

"You're looking at about half that number. 

"We're not throwing people to the dogs and saying you don't matter. We should be saying this is what will work better for you, what fits your profile."

Those kind of comments remove any form of credibility behind any of her demands. The crass smear campaign she is trying to run behind the veil of altruism is a complete sham and 62% of clubs have seen straight through it.   At least if St Mirren, Hamilton, Hibs, Aberdeen, whoever were giving this a go, it wouldn't be so exceptionally hypocritical and therefore actually semi-believable. 

Not one word of that is relevant.

[Golden Gordon]

9 hours ago, ropy said:

Did Tom English state what the legal case was going to be, did he think about lifting the phone to Anne Budge?

Not 100% sure about that. You'd have to listen to the programme to draw your own conclusions. 

[Guest JTS98]

25 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Ignore the noise around Ross County, tribalism on here, misogyny or whatever, because it's all just noise and doesn't really interest me. I've never criticised Hearts for trying to fight their corner or enact a solution. I have, however, always said reconstruction was never going to happen.

1) It's a very simplistic view to say if you have sympathy for Hearts you should just pass reconstruction. I said weeks ago on here that we'd argue and debate this over an extended period and end up with nothing to show for it.

2) Is what's happening to Hearts & others SO unfair that we should push through permanent reconstruction framed purely to solve a short term problem? In my view, no.

3) Restructuring the leagues should be a thorough process that assesses the long term benefit to the entire game. Finance, competitiveness, youth development, contribution to the national side, fan interest, TV interest, Sponsorship all the rest of it. It's not an easy thing to do.

4) The only way reconstruction to save Hearts works is temporary, and plenty clubs couldn't entertain that, and why would they? No one can criticise them for not supporting that either.

1) 'Sympathy' is meaningless PR bullshit. I think that's the point there.

2) Yes, I think it is. It's unprecedented in modern sport and I think changing things around to avoid it was justified. You don't, that's life.

3) Hearts suggested a temporary change, which I thought was best. Change for three or four years would have been my choice. Eventually there'll be more relegation, but clubs get the benefit of it being harder to be relegated for three years and then have the notice that more relegation is coming. People didn't want temporary, others didn't want permanent. What to do.

I think temporary change made perfect sense.

4) I think you can criticise clubs for hanging a small number out to dry. You don't. That's life.

Edited June 17, 2020 by JTS98

[theauldyin]

20 minutes ago, AberdeenHibee said:

So by your logic, if Hearts had finished say 11th, Ann Budge and every single one of your supporters would be saying "We will fight tooth and nail to reconstruct the leagues to save St Mirren using bribery/emotional blackmail/aggressive smear campaigns purely because it is the good thing to do".

Good one.  The worst part of all of this is Hearts fans insisting they wouldn't be acting in self-interest if they hadn't finished 12th - you are actually one of the very few clubs who universally insist you aren't, which is incredibly ironic. 

Down you go. 

Spot on ! all for the good of the game eh !  DIET  H**NS  not acting out of self interest ! get DOON ! 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

18 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

It only seems that way because he's swimming against the tide. It always seems that way when people are swimming against the tide.

This thread is close to an echo chamber of people bafflingly throwing their lot in with Donald Finldlay's performance, for example, where he seemed unsure of what exactly he'd voted against, or where the Elgin chairman on Sportsound can be lauded as a good guy for saying he would vote against lower league clubs getting more money, while Kickback is an echo chamber going the other way.

There's nothing really to do about that. People who dislike Hearts will stay on that side of the fence. That's fitba.

Just as well you are pure enough to be above that and favour the "fair" argument, which coincidentally just happens to be the one which benefits your club. How very noble of you 

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Just as well you are pure enough to be above that and favour the "fair" argument, which coincidentally just happens to be the one which benefits your club. How very noble of you 

Of course I've got my own bias. I've never argued otherwise.

[Pet Jeden]

35 minutes ago, Staggie52 said:

I take it you’re deliberately ignoring the fact that the Scottish Government took the decision not to allow football to be played in July? Playing in August is still technically not permitted although they expect to confirm a change to that policy if the situation improves. Full training is still not permissible. Still, if it don’t fit the agenda....

You might be right - except that the Dundeegate board paper was concocted at the end of March and beginning of April. What was the law at that point?

[Green Day]

4 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Hearts suggested a temporary change, which I thought was best

I dont disagree with you on that one - unfortunately that was never going to fly due to the numbers (potentially) going down at the end of the temp period.

Hearts will be fine out the back of this crisis regardless of what league you are in. Unlike other clubs, you have massive funds from FoH and Anderson - imo, Hearts and Celtic are the only clubs that will weather this reasonably ok.

Most of the rest are shortly in for the same headlines that Hibs are seeing today - player and backroom cuts due to 50% drops in income etc.

[Shtuggie]

50 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Good morning Jambos!

 

 

[theauldyin]

1 minute ago, Pet Jeden said:

You might be right - except that the Dundeegate board paper was concocted at the end of March and beginning of April. What was the law at that point?

LOCKDOWN FFS !

[theauldyin]

5 minutes ago, Green Day said:

I dont disagree with you on that one - unfortunately that was never going to fly due to the numbers (potentially) going down at the end of the temp period.

Hearts will be fine out the back of this crisis regardless of what league you are in. Unlike other clubs, you have massive funds from FoH and Anderson - imo, Hearts and Celtic are the only clubs that will weather this reasonably ok.

Most of the rest are shortly in for the same headlines that Hibs are seeing today - player and backroom cuts due to 50% drops in income etc.

Ironic is it not, old budgie tells players to take a 50% wage cut, and can now find cash to fund a self harming court case

Edited June 17, 2020 by theauldyin

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, Green Day said:

I dont disagree with you on that one - unfortunately that was never going to fly due to the numbers (potentially) going down at the end of the temp period.

Hearts will be fine out the back of this crisis regardless of what league you are in. Unlike other clubs, you have massive funds from FoH and Anderson - imo, Hearts and Celtic are the only clubs that will weather this reasonably ok.

Most of the rest are shortly in for the same headlines that Hibs are seeing today - player and backroom cuts due to 50% drops in income etc.

I think temporary change was the obvious solution. And, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post, I think it was much fairer than this solution is. Everybody would have got a pause with a bigger league for a few years to regroup, then the one season with more relegation would have been on the horizon for everyone. I think that's a fair solution.

I agree Hearts will be ok. I don't think there's any real doubt about that. I'd suggest anyone criticising Hearts from the outside takes a step back and considers the sanctimonious nonsense that we've been hearing from fans and officials of other clubs over the last few weeks though.

'Get down with dignity', 'Take your medicine' etc. It's hypocritical nonsense and I think supporters of any club would react against it.

[RandomGuy.]

JTS - "Have you seen the legal documents?! Are you lawyer?! Unless you have a personal part to play you cant comment with any certainty!"

...

JTS - "The SPFL never tried to negotiate a delayed start to the 20/21 season with Sky, and that is the basis of my new argument, this is based on the SPFL not letting me, a nobody, know about private contractual talks between them and Sky"

Hearts fans.

Nice to see Pet still peddling the myth we could've finished the season before August, and still trying to claim some magical loophole means Sky can run away from the new contract because there will be no fans at games.

 

Can this just end now? It's boring as f**k and the Hearts fans seem to be getting thicker and more desperate as we go.

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

JTS - "Have you seen the legal documents?! Are you lawyer?! Unless you have a personal part to play you cant comment with any certainty!"

...

JTS - "The SPFL never tried to negotiate a delayed start to the 20/21 season with Sky, and that is the basis of my new argument, this is based on the SPFL not letting me, a nobody, know about private contractual talks between them and Sky"

 

I see you're back to falsely conflating unrelated arguments again.

I criticised you, and will probably do so again, for pretending to know things that you do not know.

Your second 'quote' from me is a completely inaccurate representation of what I said. So, it's not relevant. But in what you're trying to quote, I asked a question and did not make an assertion. Because I don't know. So, not related to what I criticised you for at all.

You really make very poor arguments. Maybe just slow down and think a bit.

[Pet Jeden]

46 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

13 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

They are stalling on (£150k?) refunds for 2019-20 season tickets until they get an insurance pay out confirmed. Now they have suspended sales of season ticket sales for next season. The 2019 Accounts showed net liabilities of £2.58m. What could it all mean, I wonder? Maybe one of these jolly Dee boys can help explain.

f**k me, diets no more, you guys have now gone full blown H*n.

That’s a thoughtful response. Clearly you have no concerns. Thanks for clearing that up. 

[Ric]

Why is this thread still going on? The matter is finished, Heart of Seethelothian are relegated and no amount of raking over the ashes can change that.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I see you're back to falsely conflating unrelated arguments again.

I criticised you, and will probably do so again, for pretending to know things that you do not know.

Your second 'quote' from me is a completely inaccurate representation of what I said. So, it's not relevant. But in what you're trying to quote, I asked a question and did not make an assertion. Because I don't know. So, not related to what I criticised you for at all.

You really make very poor arguments. Maybe just slow down and think a bit.

And I said, it wasnt my opinion at the time.

And your lack of question marks when talking about the SPFL and Sky is why I never realised you were "asking a question", suppose that's my fault.

As I say, it's boring now. I'll be back to laugh when Neil McCann is appointed, and then when you get handed almost nothing in compensation and start claiming it's some monumental victory.