League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Gorgie greatness]

1 hour ago, Bohemian said:

Also with this announcement coming the same day as another round talks kick in, seems a bit of a coincidence, are we getting lubricated .

Ftfy

[JamesM82]

3 minutes ago, Bohemian said:

If reconstruction doesn't happen I'm sure you will hang around and tell us why you believe it didn't happen..

It's been obvious for a while that Doncaster wants a deal, but the tricky part has always been finding a model that enough clubs could vote for.

[Stanislav Petrov]

Just now, JamesM82 said:

It's been obvious for a while that Doncaster wants a deal, but the tricky part has always been finding a model that enough clubs could vote for.

Well said James. 

[cmontheloknow]

10 minutes ago, kent_don said:

At Inverness and Aberdeen he was playing in the top tier in Scotland.

Are you suggesting he would have been better served playing in a Celtic colts team in league 2?

Edit to ask:

with the colts team are they a different club with a different registration? Or considered the same club. What is the proposed policy on player movement between the two?

Been said in past they'd be stuck with a squad to work with within each transfer window.

[Bohemian]

9 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

It's been obvious for a while that Doncaster wants a deal, but the tricky part has always been finding a model that enough clubs could vote for.

To be honest I wouldn't of minded reconstruction and if it had of been done is some way weeks ago on a permanent basis I wouldn't of been that bothered. Now this money from a Hearts sugar daddy and the Colt shite has been brought into it it just smacks of corruption and is not a good look for our game.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Bohemian

[Green Day]

35 minutes ago, Stanislav Petrov said:

There is no need for legal action now. 

Why?

30 minutes ago, Stanislav Petrov said:

Hearts will play in the top league this coming season Ric. It’s just taken time to make it happen. 

How?

20 minutes ago, Stanislav Petrov said:

The colt teams won’t happen with this reconstruction is my belief. 

If this is true then the Rangers proposal is dead.

Explain to us the mechanism for Hearts moving from the Championship to the Premiership?

 

You keep dodging the difficult questions..................

[wastecoatwilly]

11 minutes ago, kent_don said:

At Inverness and Aberdeen he was playing in the top tier in Scotland.

Are you suggesting he would have been better served playing in a Celtic colts team in league 2?

 

I'm not saying the path he took was wrong and would still exist with colt/B teams in league 2.
I'm saying the jump he made wouldn't be there and he would be in the Celtic first team at 20 not 23.

[Lebowski]

I'm not saying the path he took was wrong and would still exist with colt/B teams in league 2.
I'm saying the jump he made wouldn't be there and he would be in the Celtic first team at 20 not 23.

You're assuming that Celtic don't sign him young and play him in their colt team instead of him breaking through at Inverness. Because Celtic as it stands would be nowhere near good enough to field a colts team which would have a sniff of promotion.

[DukDukGoose]

41 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Yes it is, Celtic will look for the best they can get at all ages and levels and it's not just about the wages they pay as I've said before Scotland has good talent and just as good as any country up to the age of 18.
Between 18 and 21 that's where we regress we have too many dinosaurs like Willie miller if you're not in the first team by 18 you won't make it pish.
If we look at the career path of Ryan Christie played over 50 games for inverness in the first team before he hits 20, Celtic sign him at 20 but doesn't make the first team until hes 23.
The jump between playing at inverness and playing at Celtic is massive the talent is there with help from Aberdeen on loan it took 3 clubs to get Christie where he is today.
If we can get players at 18 set out a career path with the help of other clubs we will produce more and better young talent like the players I mentioned Doohan at Ayr,Welsh at Morton,Deas at Alloa. Henderson at Ross county, one year in any colts/B team then move them up the leagues from 18 to 21.
FFS it's not about trusting big bad Celtic it's about changing the status quo because it's not working.
The three foreigner rules isn't possible any more because you can't  have an xenophobic policy.

 

You're contradicting yourself. He's in the first team by the age of 18, clearly.

[cmontheloknow]

14 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I'm not saying the path he took was wrong and would still exist with colt/B teams in league 2.
I'm saying the jump he made wouldn't be there and he would be in the Celtic first team at 20 not 23.

What would the purpose be of the B team in L1/2 if the better players were loaned out elsewhere at a higher level? You are only producing players for other clubs. The ones good enough for Celtic won't benefit from playing in L1/2. The ones good enough will be loaned to Championship and Premier clubs.

 

[ropy]

34 minutes ago, Bohemian said:

To be honest I wouldn't of minded reconstruction and if it had of been done is some way weeks ago on a permanent basis I wouldn't of been that bothered. Now this money from a Hearts sugar daddy and the Colt shite has been brought into it it just smacks of corruption and is not a good look for our game.

Sorry Bo but can you sort out the use of ‘of’, I find that very hard to read, I know that this isn’t an English class.

[wastecoatwilly]

8 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

You're contradicting yourself. He's in the first team by the age of 18, clearly.

Yes but the level hes playing at isn't good enough the massive jump to play at Celtic at 23 then again into the national team.Ex players like Willie Miller would've written him off.
The problem isn't the age the problem raising the level of Inverness.

[Stanislav Petrov]

34 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Why?

How?

If this is true then the Rangers proposal is dead.

Explain to us the mechanism for Hearts moving from the Championship to the Premiership?

 

You keep dodging the difficult questions..................

Yes questions that can’t be answered in full on a public football forum. 

Will you be happy accepting money from a Hearts benefactor? 

[Bohemian]

2 minutes ago, ropy said:

Sorry Bo but can you sort out the use of ‘of’, I find that very hard to read, I know that this isn’t an English class.

It isnt an English class so you can eff of 

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Yes it is, Celtic will look for the best they can get at all ages and levels and it's not just about the wages they pay as I've said before Scotland has good talent and just as good as any country up to the age of 18.
Between 18 and 21 that's where we regress we have too many dinosaurs like Willie miller if you're not in the first team by 18 you won't make it pish.
If we look at the career path of Ryan Christie played over 50 games for inverness in the first team before he hits 20, Celtic sign him at 20 but doesn't make the first team until hes 23.
The jump between playing at inverness and playing at Celtic is massive the talent is there with help from Aberdeen on loan it took 3 clubs to get Christie where he is today.
If we can get players at 18 set out a career path with the help of other clubs we will produce more and better young talent like the players I mentioned Doohan at Ayr,Welsh at Morton,Deas at Alloa. Henderson at Ross county, one year in any colts/B team then move them up the leagues from 18 to 21.
FFS it's not about trusting big bad Celtic it's about changing the status quo because it's not working.
The three foreigner rules isn't possible any more because you can't  have an xenophobic policy.

 

The point for me is we don't need to be developing Scottish players as good as the players Celtic currently sign/ have. We need the Scottish national team to be far better than the current level Celtic are at right now, it's been shown that Celtic's current quality are not good enough to get us to International finals (strong evidence in their European performances in last decade or so), they weren't good 10, 15 and 20 years ago either when we still didn't qualify but had better players. Colt teams at League 2 level are not likely (in fact it's almost guaranteed they wont) going to produce talent that vastly improves the Celtic team, the hope is more likely produce more talent themselves at a similar level to save having to buy players. This is not an argument for putting Celtic & Rangers colts in the leagues, it might progress them but it does not progress the Scottish national team to where we need it to be.

Couple that with the other issues, it is an absolute no

- Given the fan backlash in not wanting them in lower leagues and that fans WILL walk away from Scottish football (myself included) it will not garnish more interest and it will not generate more money

- The fact it certainly will cost other clubs players. Regardless of what you say, I'm in no doubt Celtic & Rangers would have retained at least some youth prospects released and given them more chance had colts been an option over recent years. If they didn't it would be a parameter of failure for colts, I'm sure in hindsight Rangers would have kept Kenny McLean & Lewis Morgan for example. Also, who's to say if Morgan & McLean were in colts they wouldn't have progressed that little bit faster and meant Rangers didn't want to release them? Again at detriment to St Mirren so why on  earth would they vote for this? 

Like I say, Christie falls into the category of player not good enough at the international level we need Scotland to be at. Celtic producing or developing more Ryan Christie's is not a reason for other clubs to go for it. 

I'm not suggesting the three foreigner rule, I'm suggesting a rule that already exists in European football, just regarding more players. So xenophobia would absolutely not be an issue. "Players must be developed at a club for X number of years before their 21st birthday" There is nothing in that, that would be an issue, it only encourages homegrown player rule & is a current requirement for European squads. Dembele for example would qualify but if he wanted could play for one of three different nations. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Bazil85

[AndyDD]

I seen Neil McCan strangely citing Andy Robertson as an example of why colt teams should be backed, which makes little sense to me. 

"The classic example is [Liverpool and Scotland defender] Andy Robertson, who left Celtic but is now captain of our country. He's captain because he got real football at a good level, and afterwards a brave manager took him to Dundee United - then he went on to flourish."

Yes Neil, but if he was playing for an old firm colts team rather than Queens Park, how likely is it that he'd have been able to go to Dundee United and get first team exposure at that level so quickly? Seems to me that he'd have been more likely kept in the Celtic system that released him, kept in the Colt team until and unless they decided to take him into the first team squad of celtic proper, rather than making the jump to Dundee United and competing against the likes of the Celtic first team. 

The colt system seems far more likely to have hindered Robertson, rather than helped him. Especially since every article and interview cites his punting by Celtic and rebuild at Queens Park as vital character building. 

[Stellaboz]

I'm genuinely stunned as to how Neil McCann is alive. He's so abundantly thick as sh*t it's a wonder he knows how to breathe.

[DukDukGoose]

14 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Yes but the level hes playing at isn't good enough the massive jump to play at Celtic at 23 then again into the national team.Ex players like Willie Miller would've written him off.
The problem isn't the age the problem raising the level of Inverness.

If the player isn't good enough to play for Celtic at 23 then he's going to have a struggle making it in to the Scottish set up anyway.

You don't have to throw your support behind everything Celtic do Willy.

[Dons_1988]

4 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

I seen Neil McCan strangely citing Andy Robertson as an example of why colt teams should be backed, which makes little sense to me. 

"The classic example is [Liverpool and Scotland defender] Andy Robertson, who left Celtic but is now captain of our country. He's captain because he got real football at a good level, and afterwards a brave manager took him to Dundee United - then he went on to flourish."

Yes Neil, but if he was playing for an old firm colts team rather than Queens Park, how likely is it that he'd have been able to go to Dundee United and get first team exposure at that level so quickly? Seems to me that he'd have been more likely kept in the Celtic system that released him, kept in the Colt team until and unless they decided to take him into the first team squad of celtic proper, rather than making the jump to Dundee United and competing against the likes of the Celtic first team. 

The colt system seems far more likely to have hindered Robertson, rather than helped him. Especially since every article and interview cites his punting by Celtic and rebuild at Queens Park as vital character building. 

Come on. It would be far too obvious to promote the idea of colt teams by using an actual example of a colt team working.

Not our Neily, he's too edgy for that. He'll go the opposite way and argue that someone leaving Celtic and getting experience with another club is a staunch 'go colt teams' argument.

[DukDukGoose]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

Come on. It would be far too obvious to promote the idea of colt teams by using an actual example of a colt team working.

Not our Neily, he's too edgy for that. He'll go the opposite way and argue that someone leaving Celtic and getting experience with another club is a staunch 'go colt teams' argument.

Well Willy appears to be arguing that Ryan Christie may have been a better player if he wasn't playing first team football for Caley at a young age. Maybe we're all wrong?!