RandomGuy. Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, MariusZaliukas said: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/soccer/2020/05/14/dutch-eredivisie-suspend-promotion-relegation-judge-ruling https://nltimes.nl/2020/05/14/court-football-clubs-will-promoted-shortened-season https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/sports/football/top-stories/toulouse-join-lyon-and-amiens-in-taking-french-league-to-top-court/amp_articleshow/76071152.cms https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/26/frances-league-1-row-goes-countrys-highest-administrative-court/amp/ Cheers. Had no idea theyd actually reached the courts yet. Be interesting to see how the French case goes, as they're closer to Scotland in terms of relegation etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Be interesting to see how the French case goes Might be wrong, but iirc the league unilaterally made that decision, unlike here where the clubs made the decision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Jambo74 said: Neither the French or the Dutch clubs went through CAS - they just went through their national court system. The Dutch court opted for no relegation. Nice bit of straw clutching in your wording there: following court action in the Netherlands there was no relegation, so maybe court action here would lead to no relegation. The Dutch ruling was to uphold the original decision of the KNVB because it recognised the KNVB had the power to make whatever decision it liked regardless of a vote. This wasn't a judge sitting there deciding what was fairer in their personal view. The SPFL also has that power to decide without a vote, so do you really think any outcome other than Hearts being laughed out of court with the decision of the SPFL being upheld is likely here? Worth nothing that unlike Scotland where 81% of clubs voted in favour of the SPFL's preferred method to end the season using PPG, in the Netherlands 16 clubs voted to declare positions and promote/relegate on PPG, 11 abstained and only 9 voted for null and void. The KNVB decided to null and void anyway saying the vote was just advisory. Even with the KNVB choosing the option which was confirmed as having the least support among their clubs, legal action failed. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Someone suggested this Hearts saga could rival rangers demise in 2012. I dont think anything could ever reach those levels of banter and the journey that followed followed. Hearts getting chucked from the league because they took legal action would certainly get them closer.. Go for it Ann... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Best bit about the Dutch court case is how quickly it was dealt with. Hearts fans are rushing about claiming any court case will destroy Scottish football by either dragging on for month and preventing the start of the season, or by awarding them huge amounts in damages. The day Hearts announce they're taking it to court you'll get hundreds of "Battle fever"-esque posts from Hearts fans. If the case lasts under a week and sees their arse being handed to them, it would be the greatest smack down of all time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Best bit about the Dutch court case is how quickly it was dealt with. Hearts fans are rushing about claiming any court case will destroy Scottish football by either dragging on for month and preventing the start of the season, or by awarding them huge amounts in damages. The day Hearts announce they're taking it to court you'll get hundreds of "Battle fever"-esque posts from Hearts fans. If the case lasts under a week and sees their arse being handed to them, it would be the greatest smack down of all time. A long running court case won by Hearts then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. X Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said: The SPFL also has that power to decide without a vote, so do you really think any outcome other than Hearts being laughed out of court with the decision of the SPFL being upheld is likely here? Another P & B legal expert. You get these daft QC's told. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyFerrino Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mr. X said: Another P & B legal expert. You get these daft QC's told. Which QC's? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Green Day said: Might be wrong, but iirc the league unilaterally made that decision, unlike here where the clubs made the decision. I would guess points of contention would be whether that decision was after being provided with adequate or misleading info by their board and whether Dundeegate voided the "decision" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. X Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 29 minutes ago, TonyFerrino said: Which QC's? Don't fret, P & B's very own legal eagles have got this covered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyFerrino Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, Mr. X said: Don't fret, P & B's very own legal eagles have got this covered. Yeah, I'm fine thanks mate. Are you, and the inbred gimps on Kickback, pinning your hopes on the ramblings of a money laundering estate agent? Makes a change from money laundering submariners I suppose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. X said: Another P & B legal expert. You get these daft QC's told. Its written in the widely available SPFL rulebook. 28 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: I would guess points of contention would be whether that decision was after being provided with adequate or misleading info by their board and whether Dundeegate voided the "decision" Clubs had 28 days to gather information, and then either vote yes, or abstain. Your own club decided it had enough information to vote straight away rather than use the 28 days. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Makes me laugh this worship of qc opinions which are basically an opinion on what grounds they could make a case. They will 9 times out of 10 come up with something but that doesn’t mean they will win and that opposing QC can’t readily counter these arguments and provide other info and context that the court finds compelling 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: I would guess points of contention would be whether that decision was after being provided with adequate or misleading info by their board and whether Dundeegate voided the "decision" Yeah the sevco dossier really highlighted what Dundee did, and I’m sure it will stand up in court 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 I said before if this was played out on the park there would be a few red cards, you don't need to be a legal expert to know where this is going. The SFA's position should be to protect the game apart from the Scottish cup they have been very quiet about the HL/LL. If they intend to play out the Scottish cup the teams left will look very different more so hearts in the championship. The SFA are also in a catch 22 with this, they need the revenue from the semi final and final but like the league it had to be called to move forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 There was an independent investigation in to the vote stuff. They found that Dundee did nothing wrong. By the SPFL rules Dundee did nothing wrong. What is the legal challenge to what Dundee did? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 11 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said: So per the report that the SFA may heavily sanction Hearts over any potential move for legal action against the SPFL, I did a wee bit of digging. Per the SFA's Judicial Panel Protocol, the bit in red is the rule in which Hearts would be breaking, and the bit in blue are the potential sanctions. More specifically, the provisions in which Hearts would be breaking are outlined in Statute 59.3 of the FIFA Statutes: From what I gather from the P&B Open Uni law degree lads, the issue with Hearts being relegated is that it represents a restriction of trade under the Companies Act. I can't claim to be a legal scholar myself but I'm a bit confused about everyone signing up with these rules. - Bottom team relegated because the season can't be finished = legally contestable restriction of trade. - Rules that would allow a club to be kicked out of competitive football for being wide = no problemo. Whoever drafted these didn't seem to think the law of the land had jurisdiction over who gets to play in football competitions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: I said before if this was played out on the park there would be a few red cards, you don't need to be a legal expert to know where this is going. The SFA's position should be to protect the game apart from the Scottish cup they have been very quiet about the HL/LL. If they intend to play out the Scottish cup the teams left will look very different more so hearts in the championship. The SFA are also in a catch 22 with this, they need the revenue from the semi final and final but like the league it had to be called to move forward. Can't play league games. Can't play play off games. Can play Scottish cup games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Clyde's statement sums things up rather succinctly. This should be the bottom line of the entire matter. Interesting suggestion though that Premier league should crack on and let the lower leagues scramble together whetever they can in their own time. Wonder how this would effect the promotion or relegation issue if lower league clubs decided to just band together to make their own division of 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier of clubs who are able to play next season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwideJr Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: I said before if this was played out on the park there would be a few red cards, you don't need to be a legal expert to know where this is going. The SFA's position should be to protect the game apart from the Scottish cup they have been very quiet about the HL/LL. If they intend to play out the Scottish cup the teams left will look very different more so hearts in the championship. The SFA are also in a catch 22 with this, they need the revenue from the semi final and final but like the league it had to be called to move forward. Out of interest what do you expect the SFA to have said about the HL/LL given that they don't run either league and (as has been demonstrated repeatedly throughout the process of creating a pyramid) have fairly limited power to get them to do anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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