League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Diamonds are Forever]

4 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

This is the part you're getting wrong. The argument goes 'We lost that vote because Dundee changed their mind unfairly because Alloa was a big meanie and therefore only 80% of Scottish League Clubs would have voted for the proposal so it failed to pass due to the SPFL voting structure. Therefore there was a very real chance that 80% of Scottish League Clubs would instantly choose to vote for the exact opposite proposal and save us from relegation, therefore we demand money/our league places back/the league to be stopped while clubs go bankrupt muhahaHA!'

That's one approach.

The other approach is that 'Scottish League Clubs had a legal duty of care to Hearts to all vote to protect them from relegation because they had a small chance of getting a higher league place if they'd played 8 more games, therefore the law should outright abolish democracy in this instance'.

Neither look like a goer to my, admittedly completely legally untrained mind.

 

 

The duty of care argument is hilarious. Showing how important it is to have a duty of care to your fellow clubs by taking a member organisation to court at a time when the members are struggling to cope with a global pandemic, where any financial pay-out would tip some over the edge.

Great logic.

[Dons_1988]

13 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

If the clubs were misled in the board paper that they had one or two days to digest, and if alternatives were improperly withheld from them, let alone the Dundee vote nonsense, then I would think that would be the basis for the case.

Let's hold the vote again then.

[Aim Here]

9 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

1. Because they had to change their rules anyway to stop the league and relegate Hearts. They could also have changed their rules to pay out money based on positions at early March.

2. No, I'm the guy that thinks SPFL games without crowds will considered by SKY to be a bit meh and they will therefore be looking for ways to chip that £30m p.a.

So you seriously were hoping for some bizarro Schrodinger's Professional Football League where the league didn't get played for the purpose of league placements, but the league DID get played for the purpose of prize money?

As well as making my mind recoil in horror at the sheer illogicality of it (what the hell do you think 'null and void' even means?), it's an absolute non-starter from the get-go, since it absolutely shits on pretty much every club below position 3 in the table, as they get a below-average prize pot without a competition placing to explain it. Isn't this what the growling at Dundee and ICT was all about? The Championship clubs balked in horror at the notion of losing out on prize money because of a competition that they were urged to vote never happened - and rightly told Inverness to git tae f**k if they wanted to get extra money for doing what was, legally speaking, nothing.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Aim Here

[Lebowski]

Because they were not on the end of a rushed, misleading board recommendation with a big money-carrot attached. There were 3 options - "call it", "null and void it", "play it whenever possible. No option was perfect. But if they had all been put to the clubs (without the clearly separable money issue) and the vote was to "call it" then yes Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer would be pissed off, but everybody would have had to accept it.

Yes they were. Every club has been effected equally with regards to the season being finished and not being able to do more to improve their position.

[Aim Here]

4 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

28 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Because they were not on the end of a rushed, misleading board recommendation with a big money-carrot attached. There were 3 options - "call it", "null and void it", "play it whenever possible. No option was perfect. But if they had all been put to the clubs (without the clearly separable money issue) and the vote was to "call it" then yes Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer would be pissed off, but everybody would have had to accept it.

Yes they were. Every club has been effected equally with regards to the season being finished and not being able to do more to improve their position.

I wouldn't say equally. Not only did Hibs not get to improve their position, they actually lost a place, due to the SPFL's placement algorithm guessing that St Johnstone would draw at Ibrox, while also simultaneously guessing that Rangers would somehow get two draws from that same Ibrox game.

Not that we mind. It's best for Scottish football if we take the hit.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Aim Here

[Lebowski]

I wouldn't say equally. Not only did Hibs not get to improve their position, they actually lost a place, due to the SPFL's placement algorithm guessing that St Johnstone would draw at Ibrox, while also simultaneously guessing that Rangers would somehow get two draws from that same Ibrox game.
Not that we mind. It's best for Scottish football if we take the hit.

Because we're selfless as f**k. You can't hold every club to Hibs high standards, it's just unfair on them.

[wellfan09]

Are Hearts ever going to just get fuckin doon?  They are fucking shite and deserve to be relegated, just take it on the chin.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Apologies if I missed it, but this situation of prize money changing but compensated for by Hearts not getting parachute payments, would that change the requirement for an 11-1 vote?

No. The parachute payments would simply come out of the prize pot, so them not being paid means that the prize pot has extra money in it to be distributed in the normal way. It's pure obfuscation.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

No. The parachute payments would simply come out of the prize pot, so them not being paid means that the prize pot has extra money in it to be distributed in the normal way. It's pure obfuscation.

Makes sense, the way the BBC article was initially worded last night suggested it might impact it but didn't really clarify. I think it now does confirm it's an 11-1 vote.

[craigkillie]

I am not convinced that anyone working at the BBC has actually sat down and read the (fairly brief) rules around SPFL resolutions, so pretty much every article starts off being published with duff information before being corrected a few hours or days later.

[ropy]

47 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Because they were not on the end of a rushed, misleading board recommendation with a big money-carrot attached. There were 3 options - "call it", "null and void it", "play it whenever possible. No option was perfect. But if they had all been put to the clubs (without the clearly separable money issue) and the vote was to "call it" then yes Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer would be pissed off, but everybody would have had to accept it.

If clubs had voted against the motion at that time, by the middle of May there would have had to be a further vote which would have inevitably closed the league down.  
Was the alternative to do nothing?

 

[TonyFerrino]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I am not convinced that anyone working at the BBC has actually sat down and read the (fairly brief) rules around SPFL resolutions, so pretty much every article starts off being published with duff information before being corrected a few hours or days later.

They just ask Ann for her take on it.  Naturally, that's invariably pish so they're backtracking a couple of hours later.

All joking aside, these bawsacks are meant to be the national broadcaster.  It's pretty poor.  

[ropy]

2 hours ago, Miko’s Dive said:

They have to consider it seriously, yes. 
 

Most of them are going nowhere anyway so it makes no difference. The other half are hopefully going bust. 

Given this attempt to win friends and influence people you have to wonder if Budge posted it.

[ropy]

I marvel at the Hearts strategy deployed by both Levein and Stendel of hugging the bottom position in the league all season then emerging with a surge in the last 8 games catching their rivals unaware.  If it wasn’t for those meddling votes they would have got away with it.

[jamamafegan]

Wish Budge would f**k off tbh

[Johnstoun]

So the solution to the unfairness of relegating one club this season is to relegate three clubs in 2 years time?

[Pet Jeden]

14 minutes ago, ropy said:

If clubs had voted against the motion at that time, by the middle of May there would have had to be a further vote which would have inevitably closed the league down.  
Was the alternative to do nothing?

 

They might very well have voted the same way again. But I just explained what I believe they should properly have done .

[Sparticus]

55 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

If the clubs were misled in the board paper that they had one or two days to digest, and if alternatives were improperly withheld from them, let alone the Dundee vote nonsense, then I would think that would be the basis for the case.

Whats the alternatives? Null and void=dont get paid out and League winners played almost all the season for nothing?

Wait? We still couldnt play in front of crowds and next season would have to be cut short? might as well cut this season while no fans are allowed and let the clubs get paid out.

If the clubs had a month to wait before submitting their vote it would have had the same outcome?

There was no better option.Finish the season early and use sporting merit.The vote has passed.

Heart just cant stomach their due medicine.

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Johnstoun said:

So the solution to the unfairness of relegating one club this season is to relegate three clubs in 2 years time?

Is it not technically more than 3?

You need to dilute the bottom two divisions of 14 back to three of 10 aswell. So youd technically be relegating well into double figures worth of teams, all to prevent 3 relegations this Summer.

Edited May 27, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[djchapsticks]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Is it not technically more than 3?

You need to dilute the bottom two divisions of 14 back to three of 10 aswell. So youd technically be relegating well into double figures worth of teams, all to prevent 3 relegations this Summer.

20 teams.

Just under half of Scottish football relegated on one fell swoop.